Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn - Beautiful Chaos?
This week, Marc, Darren and Paul crack open Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn), asking whether this misunderstood DC movie deserves a second chance.
PART 1 – The Nutshell – If you haven’t seen it
A spoiler-free breakdown designed to help you decide if this comic book adventure is your kind of film and worth your time.
The lads discuss what makes Harley Quinn such a popular character, whether Birds of Prey deserves its mixed reputation, and if this overlooked DC movie is worth adding to your watchlist.
By the end of Part 1, you will have made a decision!
PART 2 – The Unboxing – If you’ve seen it
What Did You Miss?
The things you missed, the details you didn't notice, and the hidden layers behind the film.
The lads unpack Harley Quinn's unique perspective on events, discuss the film's themes, characters and visual style, and debate whether Birds of Prey is one of the most misunderstood entries in the DC catalogue.
Paul’s Facts of the Day
Behind-the-scenes insights including:
- The origins of Harley Quinn
- How the film came together
- Comic book inspirations and references
- Production secrets and hidden details
- Fascinating facts from behind the scenes
Hate It or Rate It?
Marc, Darren & Paul submit their scores and Birds of Prey takes its place in the Legend League.
PART 3 – Listener Lounge – All about you!
The Lobby
Your emails, questions, comments and stories.
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This week's question comes from one of you — our listeners.
Got a great movie question? Send it in and you might hear it featured on the show!
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The big reveal of next week's movie!
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The Listener League
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Transcript
So what do I mean by that?
Speaker A:Without getting us in trouble.
Speaker B:Yeah, don't get us canceled.
Speaker A:And he's only good because he doesn't do anything other than just make a sandwich.
Speaker B:He just makes a sandwich.
Speaker B:And I don't know if there's a message in that.
Speaker B:You'll know more about the critical theory behind that.
Speaker A:I think there is a message now is that more men need to freaking make sandwiches.
Speaker C:Hello and welcome to Movies in a Nutshell with me, Marc Farquhar, myself, Darren.
Speaker B:Horn and I, Paul Day.
Speaker C:Here's why you should tune in every week.
Speaker A:We help you make better movie choices on films you haven't seen with quick spoiler free breakdowns to help you decide if they're your kind of movie.
Speaker B:And we help you get more from the movies you have seen with things you missed and details you probably didn't know us.
Speaker C:Plus there's movie facts, trivia and behind the scenes stories.
Speaker B:There's also your chance to choose the movie.
Speaker C:So grab some popcorn and let's crack open this week's movie.
Speaker C:Birds of Prey and the fantabulous emancipation of one Harley Quinn.
Speaker C:2020.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:Is that the longest name in the history of filmmaking?
Speaker A:Oh, no, it's been longer.
Speaker C:Jesus.
Speaker A:They're usually like in the art house.
Speaker C:Chosen by Darren Horn.
Speaker C:So part one, the nutshell.
Speaker C:So we will break the movie down spoiler free to help you decide if bird of.
Speaker C:I'm just gonna call it Birds of Prey.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:You have to use the full title every time or Harley Quinn.
Speaker C:The Harley Quinn movie is your kind of movie.
Speaker C:And if it's worth your time, by the end of part one, you probably will have made a decision.
Speaker C:Where.
Speaker C:Where do we start?
Speaker A:It's going to be DC in comics, like Harley Quinn is in the DC world.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say she's necessarily evil, but she's definitely anti hero and probably does kill quite a few people.
Speaker C:Is this.
Speaker C:This isn't classed as the backstory of her, is it?
Speaker C:This is more of.
Speaker A:Which is probably why it's not called the Harley Quinn movie.
Speaker A:Because it's not.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's more about what happens after she separates from the Joker.
Speaker B:Yeah, they tell you how she came Harley Quinn, very briefly, kind of.
Speaker C:It's got a back.
Speaker C:It's the closest you're gonna get at the moment to the backstory, but then it's more about her.
Speaker B:It's a breakup movie.
Speaker C:Yes, it is.
Speaker C:The Harley Quinn breakup movie where she's obviously been with the Joker.
Speaker C:I don't know how long for.
Speaker C:But they've.
Speaker C:She's always hidden behind him as a character in many ways, and he was.
Speaker C:He's always protected her, but now she's on her own.
Speaker C:What's gonna happen to this character now that they've.
Speaker C:They've got.
Speaker C:They're.
Speaker C:They're sort of out the open?
Speaker C:They're exposed.
Speaker A:I haven't watched it.
Speaker A:There's a podcast called Cinema Therapy, I think it's called, and it's got a therapist and a filmmaker who are the co hosts.
Speaker A:And they break down films in terms of filmmaking, but also the psychology behind it.
Speaker A:And there's one on this.
Speaker A:I didn't watch it because they.
Speaker A:40 Minutes.
Speaker A:It's my birthday weekend.
Speaker A:And I had other stuff going on.
Speaker A:But it'll be worth watching because the backstory of Harlequin is she's a psychologist who was treating Joker in, like, an insane asylum.
Speaker A:I know it's a harsh way, but it's Arkham Insane Asylum is what it's called.
Speaker A:And then he manipulates and molds her into this kind of.
Speaker A:And it is.
Speaker A:It's the definition.
Speaker A:I mean, a lot of people kind of love this relationship and see them as couple goals.
Speaker A:It's toxic all the way to hell is what this relationship is.
Speaker A:So she's very, very damaged.
Speaker A:She's actually, you know, a victim across the board of some very, very heinous stuff.
Speaker A:We don't get to see that.
Speaker A:We see the impact of it, I suppose.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's kind of really the movie.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She then just goes on a recovery spree of how she's going to deal with it, and along the way gets wrapped up in organized crime because she's.
Speaker C:In Gotham, comes across various characters on various side quests.
Speaker B:And I suppose a lot of this might depend if you're coming out this cold, as to your knowledge of this character.
Speaker B:So some people might have heard of the character.
Speaker B:They might have seen the comic book image of the character, thought it was the.
Speaker B:Maybe the woman version of the Joker.
Speaker C:And it's pretty much what was my interpretation if I hadn't played the Batman Arkham Asylum game?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:I wouldn't have had a clue.
Speaker B:That's what I'm trying to think.
Speaker B:Like, how do you pick that for someone who doesn't know this character?
Speaker B:Again, they might not know who the Joker is.
Speaker B:But we're in comic book land, so expect it to be a comic book film.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's actually a really comic book.
Speaker A:Comic book.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's kind of, in a way, is Kind of an antidote or a palette cleanser to the Chris Nolan style.
Speaker A:Or even the newer.
Speaker A:Who's the guy who does the new Batman?
Speaker A:The very serious Batman, Matt Reeves.
Speaker A:Yeah, like Nolan and Matt Reeves have been very serious iterations.
Speaker A:This goes much more the way of Suicide Squad.
Speaker A:First one's awful.
Speaker A:Seconds.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Or Guardians of the Galaxy or something like that.
Speaker A:It's a playful comic book movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I put down a film that popped into my head.
Speaker B:I don't know if you agree with this one, but I put down Scott Pilgrim versus the World.
Speaker A:That's a really good choice.
Speaker B:It felt like almost the female version of that kind of thing in the way it was edited and very sort of pop culture comic Y.
Speaker A:And yeah, actually that's great because I said Edgar, isn't it?
Speaker A:Yeah, I was going to say I'd go out, but I wasn't thinking of that movie.
Speaker A:That's weird.
Speaker B:Maybe Ragnarok as well.
Speaker B:Maybe Thor, sort of Ragnarok comedy of.
Speaker C:Deadpool meets John Wick.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker A:There's a lot of Deadpool meets Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker B:It's quirky.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's very quirky.
Speaker B:It's very over the top.
Speaker B:And if you like Margot Robbie, it's well worth a watch because obviously she's playing said Harley Quinn character.
Speaker B:And if you're a Margot Robbie fan, it's probably a no brainer just to watch it.
Speaker B:Just to see what she does with.
Speaker C:The character and how we connect films like we did Solo was a breakout of Star Wars.
Speaker C:This is a breakout of the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:Was she a breakout of not just Batman, but Suicide Squad.
Speaker C:Suicide Squad.
Speaker C:So there's.
Speaker C:There is that connection there and she's.
Speaker B:You don't have to watch that particularly to see this, do you?
Speaker A:No, I wouldn't have thought.
Speaker A:No, not at all.
Speaker A:And like Indiana Jones, she's kind of a Pirates of the Caribbean character.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:She's capturing Jackson, but she's a trickster character, ironically.
Speaker B:I wonder if that's because they were talking about doing like a more female Pirates of Caribbean at one point, which never, ever came to pass.
Speaker B:But they did pass around Margot Robbie's name.
Speaker A:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:So that's interesting.
Speaker A:Well, one of the greatest pirates who ever existed was a.
Speaker A:Was a woman.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:That's interesting.
Speaker A:Like she had the biggest.
Speaker A:Like someone's gonna have to fact check me on this at some point, but in the comments.
Speaker A:But I think she was married to a captain of this massive fleet.
Speaker A:He died and she just took over and it Was.
Speaker A:It was like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ships she had.
Speaker A:And in the end, I think one of the Spanish governments or us had to pay off and be like, can you stop now?
Speaker A:Like, she was undefeated.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:But these stories don't get told.
Speaker B:Pirate Captain.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's about Harley Quinn.
Speaker B:And also it's got a kind of Suicide squad thing where she ends up kind of pulling together.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:A team.
Speaker B:A team.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:A new team of misfits.
Speaker B:And yeah, more chaos ensues.
Speaker C:Chaotic is definitely the word, the overriding word to describe this movie.
Speaker A:I think it's certainly a Friday night movie.
Speaker A:I think it's a good to watch, like mixed gender.
Speaker A:If you've got some female friends, some guy friends and you watch it together.
Speaker A:Depends on the emotional intelligence of the guy friends, though.
Speaker A:So what do I mean by that?
Speaker A:Without getting us in trouble.
Speaker B:Yeah, don't get us canceled.
Speaker A:There's an awful lot of hate towards this movie online by Incelli type characters who are just like, this is just derivative of like Deadpool.
Speaker A:This is dumb.
Speaker A:And this is women doing things.
Speaker A:You know, that kind of the type of people who hated Mad Max.
Speaker A:Julie Road.
Speaker A:Because it's like Mad Max isn't even the coolest.
Speaker A:Why is Furiosa doing all the killing?
Speaker A:Well, because Mad Max is like, Max is a driver.
Speaker A:That's what he's good at.
Speaker A:Furiosis.
Speaker B:Half of that film tied up as well.
Speaker A:There's men or there's boys of my gender who really do let the side down, and so I wouldn't watch it with him.
Speaker C:I had this now as a colorful comic book crime movie about Harley Quinn trying to survive after breaking away from the Joker.
Speaker A:Because finding love is not easy.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Amen, brother.
Speaker C:How do you follow the Joker?
Speaker B:I mean, the only thing that is a shame is that her joker was Jared Leto and not one of the other jokers, which is why it's brilliant.
Speaker A:He's not in this.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:Because I wasn't a particular fan of his interpretation.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was trying to be nicer, but yeah, compared to other jokers, he was not the best.
Speaker C:It's a more.
Speaker C:This is a more.
Speaker C:It's a violent, neon soaked.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Breakup movie with baseball bats, roller skates, diamonds, gangsters, and a lot of attitude.
Speaker C:There's a lot of good attitude in.
Speaker A:This, almost versus on anime.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's seriously over the top.
Speaker B:I, I just.
Speaker B:Overall action comedy.
Speaker A:If you, if you liked Barbie, I would give this a go.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:This is a controversial take.
Speaker A:I'M not entirely sure Barbie would exist without this movie.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker A:I'm taking no more comments at this time.
Speaker C:That's all I have to say on the matter.
Speaker C:It's my pre written statement.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Darren Horn, Sky News.
Speaker C:Okay, that takes us on to part two, the unboxing.
Speaker C:So spoiler territory ahead.
Speaker C:If you haven't seen the Harley Quinn movie and we've helped you decide you do want to watch it, pause, go watch it and come back.
Speaker C:Because from this point forward, there will be a few spoilers.
Speaker C:So coming up, we have what did you miss?
Speaker C:Where we will reveal things you may have missed, details you didn't even notice.
Speaker C:Even if you've seen the movie many times, Paul has his fantabulous facts of the day.
Speaker C:And then we round off with hate it or rate it where we give our opinion score out of 10 and we'll see where it lands on the Legend League.
Speaker C:So what did we miss?
Speaker C:Mr. Horn?
Speaker A:I don't think you missed it.
Speaker A:This is a very, very feminist film.
Speaker A:And I was watching it again, being like, is there one redeemable male character in this?
Speaker C:Yes, I was gonna say, clarify what you're saying.
Speaker B:There's one.
Speaker B:Because I kept writing down, every guy in this is an absolute a hole or stupid.
Speaker B:Apart from.
Speaker B:Well, I thought there was two at one point, which was sandwich guy and then other guy who rents the thing.
Speaker A:Landlord guy.
Speaker B:Landlord guy.
Speaker B:But then he screws her over and I'm like.
Speaker B:So I actually wrote on my, on my notes, like, oh, there's two good guys.
Speaker B:No, he's an asshole too.
Speaker C:Cross him off.
Speaker B:So there's literally just Sal the sandwich guy.
Speaker B:That's the only.
Speaker A:And he's only good because he does do anything other than just make a sandwich.
Speaker B:Makes a sandwich.
Speaker B:And I don't know if there's a message in that.
Speaker B:You'll know more about the critical theory behind that.
Speaker A:I think there is a message in that that more men need to freaking make sandwiches.
Speaker B:As someone who makes sandwiches, I'm like,.
Speaker C:Not just any slop.
Speaker A:Yeah, get in the kitchen, make a sandwich.
Speaker A:That's what men need to be doing.
Speaker B:I do that anyway.
Speaker B:But I can see what they're saying.
Speaker C:Wait, a woman's heart is through her stomach?
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:Okay, well, that's one interesting.
Speaker A:What did we miss?
Speaker A:So what you will see a lot in movies is female characters don't eat, whereas guys often do.
Speaker A:You know, going back to like say Hans Gruber and Die Hard.
Speaker A:It wasn't even a script that he was eating.
Speaker A:He was Just I'm going to be doing something.
Speaker A:I'm going to be eating.
Speaker A:Because me threatening this whole skyscraper of people is like a Tuesday to me.
Speaker A:And I'm hungry, you know, that's good.
Speaker C:That, like.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think her whole thing about, you know, she's gone through a breakup and she's going to get the nicest sex, basically, like street food she can get.
Speaker A:Is that like a egg kind of sandwich or something, isn't it?
Speaker B:Oh, it looks good.
Speaker A:It does look good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And a whole desire around that, I feel, I think is really believable.
Speaker A:And I can remember.
Speaker A:I haven't seen it a lot, but I can remember watching Ocean's Eight, which is the.
Speaker B:Oh, I haven't seen that one yet.
Speaker B:That's Sandra Bullock and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like Kate Blanchett and like just a whole ton of great women.
Speaker A:Julia Robertson is in it.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of times when they're talking and planning where they're eating.
Speaker A:And I think Cate Blanchett would be like, you're gonna have that.
Speaker A:And they'll be eating off each other's plates.
Speaker A:And it feels really, really organic.
Speaker A:That's really, really hard to do for film.
Speaker A:Cause you got it for continuity.
Speaker A:You gotta be like, okay, I say this line and on that word, I take this bite.
Speaker C:And then like, if you go frame.
Speaker C:Oh, that plate's empty now.
Speaker C:Oh, that's.
Speaker C:They've eaten that.
Speaker C:Where's that come from?
Speaker B:You find on a gag reel that a lot of the time, the most gag reels have them when the trout wheat stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because their drinks, like, it's before nearly empty.
Speaker C:That's in the middle.
Speaker C:It's full again.
Speaker C:It's nearly empty.
Speaker A:Like, it's hard to do.
Speaker A:So the fact that it's happened, it's great.
Speaker A:And now just start paying attention.
Speaker A:Whenever you see women on screen, are they eating?
Speaker A:A lot of time they won't.
Speaker A:And there's like food there.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's like the dumb American.
Speaker C:They've got something in their hand, but they never actually eat.
Speaker A:Or the dumb American breakfast, where it's like a massive dining table full of food.
Speaker A:Then the teenager comes down, so I'll just grab some toast.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's because, you know, that food's probably been sat there for like two days and toast is the only thing that even if toast is stale, you can put it in your mouth and deal with it, you know.
Speaker A:So, yeah, there's that.
Speaker A:Which I find nice.
Speaker A:There were things I didn't like about this movie when I First saw it and now watching it again, I think it's intentional.
Speaker A:So this is very, very feminist, obviously, But I think Roman sion set sionis as the black mask.
Speaker A:I thought was this shit villain.
Speaker A:I was like, this is a terrible guy.
Speaker A:He's got no superpowers.
Speaker A:He's just gross.
Speaker A:And when you've got a morally gray hero, you have to make the bad guy worse than them.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:So the fact that he is ripping off people's faces makes him worse than Harley Quinn.
Speaker A:You know, he's kind of up there.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:So I used to wonder, like, why would they cast Ewan McGregor and why would they pick that out of all the characters, you can have to pick the black mask?
Speaker A:It's dumb.
Speaker A:And then watching it again, I was like, no, he's not dumb.
Speaker A:He's just a guy who's whining about his parents not giving him enough money or whatever, whining about women not giving him enough attention and then ripping people's faces off because he's frustrated.
Speaker A:Do you think that's unfair?
Speaker A:Paul's looking at me like, I'm not sure where you're going.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:I'm thinking about it, like, yeah, see what you're saying?
Speaker A:Because then you think about all the worst things that men get accused of.
Speaker A:And we're not going through a particularly great week for men at the moment in terms of what's going on in the news.
Speaker B:But I've tried to be good.
Speaker C:You're a good boy, Paul.
Speaker C:We know that.
Speaker A:Yeah, good point.
Speaker C:You're exempt.
Speaker A:But then I think, well, how does that come across?
Speaker A:And there's a point where he's in Roman sionis is in his nightclub, and a woman laughs.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:And he's like, she's laughing at me.
Speaker C:He flips.
Speaker A:And zaz is like, yeah, she's laughing at you.
Speaker A:And she's like, get on there.
Speaker A:Take off your dress.
Speaker A:And we talked about this recently in another episode, was it godfather or something?
Speaker A:Whereas we brought up that quote where women are scared men are going to kill them, but men are scared women are going to laugh at them.
Speaker A:And that's exactly what happens in this.
Speaker A:It's like this fear that a man that powerful and deranged is going to think you're laughing at him.
Speaker A:So what does he do in return?
Speaker A:And then there's a line, I think, near the end where he says, you're just a silly little girl with no one around to protect her.
Speaker A:And that builds on this idea of this really troubling quote I saw.
Speaker A:It was a commentary, I think, on, like, an article, and someone said that men aren't protective, they're territorial.
Speaker A:So if you're part.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If you're their partner, they will protect you.
Speaker A:If you're part of their, like, squad or their team or associates, they'll protect you.
Speaker A:But if they're not, you know, if you're nothing to them, you're nothing to them.
Speaker A:And I inherently don't agree with that, but I live in a bubble where I know that you guys would help a stranger.
Speaker A:You know, it's like, so we're good guys, but even bad guys say the good guys.
Speaker A:So I. I think there's a. Oh, no.
Speaker A:You know who.
Speaker A:Can you believe Paul?
Speaker C:It's a front.
Speaker C:Paul.
Speaker C:We knew what you really like.
Speaker B:It's so.
Speaker A:So then I was like, okay, I kind of like this because for me, it's Black widow vibes.
Speaker A:Because Black widow, the bad guy, Ray Winston.
Speaker A:Ray Winston, Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's just this gross guy trading.
Speaker B:It's kind of this nothing guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's just a guy like a gangster, like Epstein, a sick guy.
Speaker A:And I'm like, that's kind of.
Speaker A:Kind of puts it a little bit ahead of its time when this come out, like, six years ago or something.
Speaker B:Just before COVID I think.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:That intrigued me.
Speaker A:So I think in terms of it being feminist, you could also verge on it being.
Speaker A:It's called misandry when you hate men.
Speaker C:Misandry.
Speaker A:So it is misandry.
Speaker A:Sweet.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And I think I'm okay with that.
Speaker A:I think you're allowed to explore movies with that.
Speaker A:Like, we talked before about the Bechdel test, haven't we?
Speaker A:About how, you know, it was a journalist drinking at lunch, and they came up with this idea that.
Speaker A:Does the movie have two female.
Speaker A:More than one female character and two female characters that talk to each other, and they talk to each other about something other than men?
Speaker A:Because there's that great thing.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Is it Lord of the Rings where it's like the two women torture each other?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I never thought.
Speaker A:It's like Mummy.
Speaker A:Did you hear that?
Speaker A:Oh, it's probably nothing to the end, like, something like that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:This whole franchises where two women don't talk to each other about something other than men.
Speaker A:So I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a ton of women in a movie where every guy is a dick.
Speaker A:I don't see a huge issue with that.
Speaker A:I'm okay with it.
Speaker B:If that's what they were aiming for, that's what.
Speaker B:Because it's made fairly obvious in this, isn't it?
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:That's the aim.
Speaker A:We're also in Harley Quinn's world, which is a world of derang, you know, harmed and criminal people.
Speaker A:And what I really love about it is there's a bit where the girl.
Speaker A:Is it Cassandra?
Speaker A:Like, she's like, oh, yeah, Mr. J?
Speaker A:She's like, who is it?
Speaker A:Mr. J?
Speaker A:The crown prince of crime?
Speaker A:He's like, never heard of him.
Speaker A:He sounds like a dick.
Speaker A:And I was like, that's so interesting, because when you're in, like, a big relationship like that, you think everyone knows who you are.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And Harley Quinn's in a bubble of notoriety.
Speaker A:You know, she's known in Gotham.
Speaker A:If she went to another city, would she be known?
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's interesting how we.
Speaker A:Our ego makes us the main character of the whole movie instead of just the scenes that we're in.
Speaker C:You know, sometimes it was a lot about ego and the Joker was about ego.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It feels like that's generational sometimes as well, though, isn't it?
Speaker B:Where you've grown up with a certain thing and then all of a sudden you go, what, You've never heard of the joke?
Speaker B:And, like, no.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're like, but.
Speaker B:But it's this massive thing and I never heard of it.
Speaker B:And it's diminished.
Speaker A:Diminished sort of thing means it's no big deal.
Speaker A:That is not in your life anymore.
Speaker A:You know, it's like, oh, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker A:Sounds like a dick.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, he's a bit.
Speaker A:The other thing I actually do teach with this film at times.
Speaker A:I at times have talked about Laura Mulvey in the male gaze and the camera being male and then the cameraman being male and direct to being male.
Speaker A:And women are overly sexualized in film.
Speaker A:They just have been for a long time.
Speaker A:Not all the time, as we saw with All About Eve.
Speaker A:But if you look at the Harley Quinn's representation in the Bad Suicide Squad movie, she's just there as a sex object.
Speaker A:Like, at one point, she's in a glass cage behind the men when they talk.
Speaker A:And she's just dancing like a stripper.
Speaker A:In Suicide Squad, she search.
Speaker A:She ends up behind the bar and serves the men their drinks.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:And it's just every single scene.
Speaker A:And her outfit is highly, highly sexualized in this film.
Speaker B:I liked her outfit.
Speaker A:None of it is highly sexualized.
Speaker A:It feels like, she's dressed herself for fun because she's kind of a rollerblading.
Speaker B:It's very quirky.
Speaker A:Her hair is kind of like she's cut it herself, even.
Speaker A:It's not fetishistic or anything like that.
Speaker A:And she's just got great lines.
Speaker A:And there's all women lifting people up.
Speaker A:Like, oh, hey, I love that.
Speaker A:And, hey, do you need a hair bubble?
Speaker A:And things like this.
Speaker B:Whilst murdering people.
Speaker A:Yeah, whilst murdering people.
Speaker A:So I love they.
Speaker A:You've got much stronger, better representation.
Speaker A:And I don't think it's.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm talking about it because I like the fact it's there.
Speaker A:But I also love the squad they put together.
Speaker A:You know, you've got.
Speaker A:I think Cassandra's probably, like, Asian American.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:I would think.
Speaker A:Then you've got the.
Speaker A:The older cop as well, who's like Rosie Perez.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's Latino.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would think so.
Speaker A:So it's a really nice kind of mix of people.
Speaker A:So I'm like, okay, yeah, that's all good.
Speaker B:You always talk about the narrator thing.
Speaker B:And this is her narrator.
Speaker C:I was gonna say that was my first note of Darren's favorite unreliable narrator herself.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the way she narrates it is very all over the place because it's her narrating it.
Speaker B:And then there's a few, which I always quite like a fourth wall breaker, Ferris Bueller.
Speaker B:Look to the camera.
Speaker B:There aren't many of them, though.
Speaker B:No, they're very much in the voiceover.
Speaker B:But then every now and again, she'll just look at the camera, and I'm like, oh, I quite like that.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker C:It's just been told by her brain.
Speaker C:It's just all over the place.
Speaker A:And also her brain is.
Speaker A:Is seriously damaged as a character.
Speaker A:So here's an interesting thing that I saw someone comment on a YouTube video about this.
Speaker C:Oh, it's the best place to go.
Speaker A:They were saying, you know, I think someone described.
Speaker A:I think actually Margot Robbie says, oh, you know, Harley Quinn's not evil.
Speaker A:And a lot of comments were like, she's freaking tor people.
Speaker A:Like, she's killed a lot of people.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah, but she didn't in the movie.
Speaker A:And then people were commenting, being like, yeah, she did.
Speaker A:When she attacks the police station, she's using a gun, but in her warped head, confetti is blood.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, that's an interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, the glit.
Speaker B:The glitter bombs that are going off are actually not glitter.
Speaker A:She's just like, yay, this is fun.
Speaker A:Glitter I love killing people.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker B:But the reality.
Speaker A:She's telling you the story.
Speaker A:She's telling the sanitized version.
Speaker C:Very unreliable.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:See that messy narration thing?
Speaker B:I think Shane Black, writer, director, he's like the master of it.
Speaker B:And if you watch Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, which I know we've mentioned before, I don't think you've seen it.
Speaker B:No, but that's a bit like that.
Speaker B:Robert Downey Jr's doing the narration of the film and he's a bit like, why am I telling you this?
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I'm gonna go back.
Speaker B:And he kind of changes it about.
Speaker A:And he said, oh, it reminded me of that.
Speaker A:That's me.
Speaker A:No, that's her in the box.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did I not tell you that was me?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, I forgot about that bit.
Speaker B:And it reminded me of that when she's like, oh, I'm telling this.
Speaker B:Oh, wrong.
Speaker B:I need to go back over here and kind of jump.
Speaker A:I think it's a nice way of getting exposition about, particularly the animated opening, like, oh, let me tell you a story about a girl falling in love with a guy.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm a liber now.
Speaker A:Narrator.
Speaker A:Good catch, Mark.
Speaker A:That was cool.
Speaker A:Other than that, she's got a crapload of tattoos.
Speaker A:It's the whole Gen Z tattoo thing.
Speaker A:It's the doodle pad approach to tattooing.
Speaker B:I'm allowed to have an opinion on that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't get it.
Speaker A:No, me neither.
Speaker C:Okay, well, tattoos in general.
Speaker B:Well, I don't get them in general, but I definitely don't get the doodle ones.
Speaker A:What's interesting is this.
Speaker A:I don't know why someone who isn't my student was in my class and, like, someone else's student, and we were talking about tattoos and I was like, oh, but, you know, I'm Gen X.
Speaker A:It's, you know, it'll be sleeve tattoos.
Speaker A:My generation.
Speaker A:And she was, yeah, but they're cringe.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, but they weren't.
Speaker A:And then every doorman on every nightclub had them over a period of like, two years, and then they got cringe.
Speaker A:And what you guys are doing is going to be cringe because you're all doing it.
Speaker A:And it's just going to be like, everyone's got the same type of tattoos.
Speaker B:And I go.
Speaker B:I always go, each to their own.
Speaker B:Do what you want.
Speaker B:I don't care.
Speaker B:But I still always think to myself in my head, I don't get it.
Speaker B:Especially if they're like, you know, really nice.
Speaker B:And you're like, why you don't need this.
Speaker A:And you're not being unique or individual by doing it.
Speaker A:And I was told you'd be more.
Speaker C:Unique if you don't do it.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Like I was told that when I was getting tattoos freaking 32 years ago or whatever.
Speaker A:And they were just like, everyone's got tattoos.
Speaker C:Those ones, those random tribal things on their arm.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:That was just.
Speaker C:Everyone had them.
Speaker A:Or the Chinese getting attacked and gone.
Speaker C:I'm definitely not getting one of them.
Speaker A:Yeah, they were huge.
Speaker B:And I remember when I decided not to get any.
Speaker C:He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:Doesn't get tattoos.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker A:I mean, the way he's single.
Speaker B:There it is.
Speaker A:Smoking and tattoos.
Speaker A:That's the way to get the ladies.
Speaker C:I noticed that.
Speaker C:Is it Helena Bertinelli?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Who was the Crossbow Killer after the big.
Speaker B:She's not called the Crossbow Killer, she's called Huntress.
Speaker C:There's various names in this.
Speaker C:Someone calls her that, she goes, no, I'm not called that, but that's right.
Speaker C:But did you notice she also, after a big family event, gets taken to Sicily to lay low after.
Speaker C:After the major, major family incident.
Speaker C:Sound familiar?
Speaker C:The Godfather.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the Bertinelli diamond is just McGuffin.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:No matter what it is now.
Speaker C:No, no relevance.
Speaker B:I wrote that.
Speaker B:Something going on with the diamond.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like it's secondary to what actually the film's really about, I suppose.
Speaker A:It was also basically a first time director, a woman called Kathy Yan, who has done almost nothing.
Speaker A: one movie called dead pigs in: Speaker A:Never even heard of it.
Speaker A:Never heard of you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because the chaos in this movie is also not just because of my brain, but the filmmaking.
Speaker C:It like it jumps around kinetic, it rewinds, it interrupts itself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:The story itself feels chaotic.
Speaker C:But that's.
Speaker C:That's probably the point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But there's also, I don't know I'm allowed to say before I get cancelled, but there's also girly moments, if that's the best way of describing it, where like I thought it was hilarious when she's in the chase with Rosie Perez and there's the sparkly handbag and she's like, oh, I've just got to get it to get the sparkly handbag.
Speaker B:But then carries on the chase and everything else.
Speaker A:I like the breakup where she's pouring like cheese.
Speaker A:Cheese, I don't know, American cheese.
Speaker A:Whipped, I think they call it, straight into her Mouth.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And again, it's not the male gaze.
Speaker A:And we've got better.
Speaker A:Like I still like the movie Frozen when Anna is asleep and she's drooling and she's like ugly sleeping because people don't sleep like a Disney.
Speaker A:Like an old fashioned wake up with.
Speaker C:A hair done makeup, pure white teeth, everything.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:It's like with all the birds flying.
Speaker C:Morning.
Speaker C:Here's like a bag of chips right next to them.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker C:What is that what it was?
Speaker A:So I like that.
Speaker A:I like that she's never really doing anything, you know, for the male gays or to make people attracted to her.
Speaker A:Like I really like this.
Speaker C:But you know why?
Speaker C:Why do that?
Speaker C:That's not real.
Speaker C:Well, because this movie is not really.
Speaker A:Well, I mean if you look at like Transformers and say Megan Fox, you know, it sells more tickets.
Speaker A:It's problematic.
Speaker C:But you could sell more tickets by making better movies.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so, hopefully.
Speaker C:So I noted that the emancipation isn't just from her breakup from the Joker, it's her breakup from his protection.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She's kind of out on her own because there's that scene where she kind of confesses that the broke up but she was still pretending she still had the J necklace, didn't she?
Speaker C:Slowly starts to realize I'm not safe anywhere.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Or by anybody.
Speaker B:Because normally she's had that protection bubble.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:And it's not like sexy getting drunk either when she's going through the breakup.
Speaker A:But she's a frickin mess in that nightclub.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've had girlfriends who've got into messy states.
Speaker A:It's like she's vomiting in a handbag and you know, it's like that joke, isn't it?
Speaker A:Like Mickey Flanagan says his kind of comedy so does.
Speaker A:I can't remember her name now.
Speaker A:Sarah Milliken.
Speaker A:Where it's like your girlfriend's in the street bent over, pulling their knickers to the side, pissing like a camel whilst trying to eat chicken nuggets at the same time.
Speaker A:You know, life isn't a fairy tale.
Speaker A:And this gets.
Speaker A:It gets that across quite well.
Speaker C:They shit like the rest of us.
Speaker A:Yeah, they do.
Speaker A:There's a lot of links to Suicide Squad as Easter eggs, but people can go dig into them if they're like.
Speaker A:But also there's a lot of fixing things that they do wrong in Suicide Squad.
Speaker A:So like, you know, she dances in this movie in the nightclub, but she's dancing like for fun.
Speaker A:Whereas in Suicide Squad she's Dancing for the titillation of men.
Speaker A:You know, little things like that they fix, which I'm here for.
Speaker A:And I also really liked the flashback crime scenes where the cop is in the scene where the crime is happening.
Speaker A:That was cool.
Speaker C:Okay, thank you, gentlemen.
Speaker C:That takes us on to Mr. Paul A's fantastic facts of the day.
Speaker B:Harley adopts a hyena in this film as a pet.
Speaker A:Oh, he's a good boy.
Speaker B:That's the one.
Speaker B:Cause in Batman the Animated Series, which is my favorite depiction of Harley Quinn because that's where she originated from.
Speaker B:And in the comics, she has two hyenas.
Speaker B:And in the animated series called Bud and Lou, named after comic duo Bud Abbott and Luke Costello.
Speaker B:But there's only one single hyena in this film because the effects to get the photorealistic thing was so intensive.
Speaker B:Intensive.
Speaker B:They could only afford one.
Speaker B:So they basically had to get rid of a hyena.
Speaker B:And one of the other facts I found when I won't read it out, but when I was flicking through them was they did consider getting an actual hyena, a real one, but apparently the very territorial.
Speaker B:And it would mean that they would have made the mark on the set so that you couldn't use the set again or something.
Speaker B:So it was going to be too problematic.
Speaker B:So, animated one, when Harley Quinn is leaving the police precinct, she points to a wanted poster and says, hey, I know that guy.
Speaker B: with in the suicide squad in: Speaker A:Suicide Squad by David Ayers.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Who is on the record a lot saying the studio absolutely butchered his film.
Speaker A:And there's a he's cut, which is.
Speaker B:Much better, which we never have seen.
Speaker A:I've never seen.
Speaker A:And then James Gunn did a version of Suicide Squad, which I genuinely think is phenomenal and everyone should see.
Speaker A:And Harley Quinn is in that.
Speaker A:And is.
Speaker A:Is this version of Harley Quinn in that?
Speaker B: kater is lifted straight from: Speaker B:And she has a number 92 reference in the year of her debut in the Animated series.
Speaker B:The film was produced under the working title of Fox Force 5, which was the name of a fictional television show that never made it past the production of its pilot.
Speaker B:In the movie Pulp Fiction, the egg sandwich that is made for Harley Quinn is not made with chicken eggs, but instead with duck eggs, because Margot Robbie is.
Speaker B:Margot Robbie is allergic to chicken egg whites.
Speaker B:She gets migraines from them.
Speaker B:So the production had to provide duck eggs to avoid an allergic reaction.
Speaker C:That was the first time I've ever heard anyone order chicken eggs.
Speaker C:Like, have to say what kind of eggs you want.
Speaker C:I've never heard that ever in my life in my 45 years on this planet.
Speaker B:Well, there you go.
Speaker C:Everyone just.
Speaker C:I'll have eggs, please.
Speaker B:Not in this one.
Speaker B:Margot pitched the idea of Birds of Pride to DC and Warner Brothers as an R rated female led superhero action movie.
Speaker B:And they agreed with the vision because I think she said, I think there's a perception that a PG female led action film is kind of considered a chick flick.
Speaker B:So in addition of starring, Robbie was also a producer through her Lucky Chap production company.
Speaker C:So she got your favorite PG chick flicks.
Speaker B:I like my PG chick flicks.
Speaker B:We know.
Speaker B:What's she doing knocking them?
Speaker B:Not having that.
Speaker B:Not on.
Speaker B:Harley's dad traded her in for a case of beer.
Speaker B:The beer is called Dinny, which is a reference to Harley's creator, Paul Dinny, who worked on Batman, the Animated series, who came up with the character.
Speaker B:So there's lots of little Easter eggs like that.
Speaker B:Director Cathy Yan framed a scene between Harley and Cassandra as an ode to the same circumstance scene.
Speaker B:The forced apartment eviction in Leon in 94.
Speaker B:When Montoya glares at Harley for her garish red and black vest, she says, what?
Speaker B:I gotta protect the girls.
Speaker B:And it turns out it was a bulletproof vest, thus literally protecting the girls.
Speaker C:Thank you very much, Paul.
Speaker C:Okay, that takes us on to hate it or rate it.
Speaker C:So what do we think?
Speaker C:I'm gonna go to Mr. Horn first, since this was his choice.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was.
Speaker A:I remember loving it at the cinema.
Speaker A:I think it was kind of during or just after Covid or something I looked at.
Speaker B: That was February: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was just before, by the.
Speaker C:Sound, the last time you went somewhere public for quite a while.
Speaker A:I would have hit its chances as well.
Speaker A:And I remember I posted on Facebook I was being very social media guy back then, and I was like, it reminds me, there's this theory that the ancient Greeks really were scared of powerful women, like being a kind of, say, a mother kind of figure or whatever.
Speaker A:Words were seen as scary and the female gods were seen as scary.
Speaker A:And this feels epic.
Speaker A:Kind of building on last week's episode of Indiana Jones.
Speaker A:Like she feels they really paints a city where there's kind of main character energy or kind of gods.
Speaker A:And Harley Quinn is like one of the gods and protected by the Joker, who's like a Zeus character.
Speaker A:And it's almost like this pantheon sort of.
Speaker A:And I do think, I mean I'm not the first person to talk about this, but they're talking about like Marvel and DC are becoming the new gods that we worship to it.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, like the new mythology.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:People have their authors of Marvel stuff and DC stuff and they wear their clothing and you know, it's.
Speaker A:What would, what would Captain America do?
Speaker A:Is that moral code?
Speaker A:It's interesting.
Speaker A:So, but that also goes into myth.
Speaker A:You know, every, whether it's, you know, this is a. Harley Quinn's a trickster character.
Speaker A:So she's basically like a Loki type character.
Speaker A:And there's trickster characters in every like pantheon basically.
Speaker A:And I knew it was going to be pro women, although a lot of women aren't particularly nice as well too.
Speaker A:They're, they're kind of three dimensional and I knew it was going to be reasonably anti men and it was more anti men than I realized watching it the second time around.
Speaker A:And I'm here for it, to be fair.
Speaker A:Like, I don't really.
Speaker A:That doesn't bother me.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, take your shots at me.
Speaker A:I don't look at this screen and think, ah, I'm like Roma sionis.
Speaker A:Like, I don't, I don't connect to any of these characters.
Speaker A:So I don't think it's about me.
Speaker A:It's about men.
Speaker A:But heinous ones which are in the world of Harley Quinn.
Speaker A:Not, you know, not your average.
Speaker B:I'm glad we at least had one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it's like being in.
Speaker A:Am I going to be annoyed at Black Panther?
Speaker A:There's no cool white characters in it.
Speaker A:For me to be like, oh, can I be like them?
Speaker A:I get the Hobbit and Gollum.
Speaker A:So I just think it.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's kind of ludicrous.
Speaker A:And it's just a fun movie.
Speaker A:And it's a bit of a tough watch coming off Indiana Jones where it's craftsmanship, which is kind of what we said about Han Solo being coming before God or after Godfather.
Speaker C:Was it after?
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker A:But I think for second time director she freaking nails it.
Speaker A:I think it's very dialogue driven, which is fine.
Speaker A:We have movies like that.
Speaker A:There's not a great deal of kind of visual storytelling.
Speaker A:But I love the metaphor of blowing up the place where she was.
Speaker A:I love that line.
Speaker A:I have all my best ideas when I'm drunk.
Speaker A:I was like, me too.
Speaker A:I haven't had a good idea for so long.
Speaker A:So I liked it.
Speaker A:I liked it a lot.
Speaker A:I loved a bit where the fight in the funhouse, that feels like why haven't we seen that before?
Speaker A:That feels like a really.
Speaker C:That was the video games.
Speaker C:It's very like the video game that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was in the game.
Speaker A:If you're gonna fight the Joker, why are you fighting him in, like, an abandoned skyscraper and not a fun house?
Speaker A:It's Joker.
Speaker A:They do it fun.
Speaker A:So it really just has a cool comic book vibe.
Speaker A:Michael Robbie's acting is phenomenal.
Speaker A:She made me cry, like, two, three times.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just through.
Speaker A:Particularly when, like, Doc betrays her.
Speaker A:And she's like, Doc, really?
Speaker A:And she feels so vulnerable.
Speaker A:She's badass.
Speaker A:And she's this, like, very scary character.
Speaker A:Because at one point I think, sir.
Speaker A:And this has got, like, 10 guns on her.
Speaker A:And that whole scene is amazing where she's like, oh, yeah, I know you're not that complicated.
Speaker A:Saki Saki, Saki.
Speaker A:And then she realizes she's actually in trouble.
Speaker A:She's like, oh, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker A:Okay, I can help.
Speaker A:I can help.
Speaker A:And she's kind of bouncing between bravado and being genuinely scared and damaged.
Speaker A:And I. I probably am attracted to far too damaged women, but no, Darren, no marry.
Speaker C:Avoid red flags.
Speaker A:Are there any red flags with Harley?
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had fun.
Speaker A:I would have had more fun, I think, if I had company.
Speaker A:Because it's a great.
Speaker A:It feels like a great movie to laugh at with your friends.
Speaker A:And I was watching alone during the Day.
Speaker A:I still think I'm gonna give it an 8.
Speaker A:I think it's really.
Speaker A:Well, I think it's as good as you can get it.
Speaker A:And I haven't really.
Speaker A:There's a lot of criticism of it being like.
Speaker A:It's just like the ripoff of Deadpool or Captain Jack Sparrow, but they're ripoffs of things that came before them.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker A:Everything's retold.
Speaker A:And I think this is really good fun.
Speaker A:And I would recommend.
Speaker A:I think particularly women and girls should watch it.
Speaker A:I think it's great to see a badass character, even if they are a bit damaged.
Speaker C:So, Nate.
Speaker C:Solid.
Speaker C:Okay, thank you, Darren.
Speaker C:Over to you, Mr. Day.
Speaker B:I feel like it was a mixed bag for me.
Speaker B:I enjoyed Margot Robbie.
Speaker B:I enjoyed the scenes.
Speaker B:The actual fight scenes were choreographed.
Speaker B:Really great.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Enjoyed the action.
Speaker A:The Huntress was a bit weak.
Speaker A:I thought her acting was off.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That's interesting.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I didn't mind her so much.
Speaker C:Very laid back.
Speaker C:Almost too laid back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think she knew what movie she was in.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I think you try to be Indiana Jones.
Speaker B:Yeah, I Think that's her is real life misses now, isn't it?
Speaker B:She's trying to be Diana Jones, Mary Elizabeth Winston.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker A:Okay, thanks.
Speaker B:So, yes, some of it I really liked.
Speaker B:I got the men bashing.
Speaker B:I got the message.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:I felt like at the start it was really hammering it.
Speaker B:And then eventually it just kind of became part of it.
Speaker B:And I was like, it's fine.
Speaker B:Maybe they didn't need to hammer it as much at the start.
Speaker B:But again, that was probably the point of it.
Speaker B:So I also.
Speaker A:Maybe she can't.
Speaker A:She actively can't see the good men.
Speaker A:Maybe she's in a world where there was not.
Speaker C:She knows.
Speaker A:It's all she knows.
Speaker A:So every man is seen as a threat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is fine because that's this film and that's what they were putting on.
Speaker B:So I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:The diamond bit, I didn't really have much interest in that.
Speaker B:I get it was a MacGuffin him, but it felt a bit too much of a.
Speaker C:We were putting too much into it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're like, we need a thing to drive the story.
Speaker A:The diamond is the best girl's best friend.
Speaker A:Because that was like she was hit and then had like a ptsd, like, flash to a happy place or something.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You enjoyed that.
Speaker A:The dream complex trauma exploration.
Speaker B:It felt like one of them that I was hooked in more and more as it went along.
Speaker B:So I think it's one of them.
Speaker B:If I watched it again, I'd probably enjoy it more a bit.
Speaker B:Like you've just said you were similar.
Speaker B:The one thing that let it down for me, and I hate to say this because normally I like him and stuff.
Speaker B:Ewan McGregor, I just didn't buy him as that character.
Speaker B:I thought he was kind of weak.
Speaker B:There was moments where it was funny what he was doing, but overall it just felt like he was acting.
Speaker B:I think said.
Speaker B:And he had the accent, which is like.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, I know you from Scotland and I know you do your Obi Wan voice, but the American accent, I don't know.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:And I like him in other stuff.
Speaker A:I just feel that we were supposed to second time watching it.
Speaker A:I feel like we're supposed to laugh at him for being pathetic.
Speaker B:I guess so.
Speaker B:But I just felt like his delivery of it, I was just like, oh.
Speaker B:I just feel like it could have been someone else.
Speaker B:So I didn't buy him, which is probably.
Speaker B:If my grade is a bit lower, that's probably why.
Speaker B:Because the.
Speaker B:The action stuff, I loved that scene in the funhouse.
Speaker B:I thought colorful wise, the glitter stuff.
Speaker A:Was really cool and all the graphics are like, what have I done to annoy this person?
Speaker B:Yeah, that was all good.
Speaker A:I have a vagina.
Speaker A:It was good.
Speaker B:Any of the Scottish pilgrimy as I thought of its sort of stuff was really good.
Speaker B:I enjoyed that.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna give it a six as a first time watch.
Speaker B:Bit of a mixed bag.
Speaker A:So I become 49 and you guys start shitting on movies.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what happened in the last year.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I enjoyed parts of it.
Speaker B:I'm not saying I hated it.
Speaker B:There was just bits of it where I was like and.
Speaker B:And the messy narrative.
Speaker B:Whereas I get why they did it and it was part of her head and everything.
Speaker B:I just think I've seen it done better where it kind of jumps back and forth and things like the Shane Black stuff like in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh yeah, maybe they could have done that in a different way.
Speaker B:But I had a good time, I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:And again, if I watched it again, maybe I'd put a mark.
Speaker B:I feel it maybe would have been a seven.
Speaker B:But every time Ewan McGregor was on screen, I was just sat there going, I don't buy this.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm just struggling with it.
Speaker B:Go on, Mark, go for it.
Speaker C:To quote Darren Horn, this is a huge pile of shit.
Speaker A:Oh, he's an incel.
Speaker A:One for your lives.
Speaker A:That's just.
Speaker C:It's just a chaotic mess.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:It made no sense.
Speaker C:I know it's not meant to make any sense, but I.
Speaker C:It's just not my kind of movie.
Speaker A:Why didn't it make sense?
Speaker A:What part?
Speaker C:First of all, what you said.
Speaker C:Ewan McGregor just not buying it.
Speaker B:And I like him in other stuff.
Speaker C:It was just not.
Speaker C:Not believable as that character whatsoever.
Speaker C:Well, first start the.
Speaker C:How many characters in this, this from the beginning.
Speaker C:I've written this down.
Speaker C:So this.
Speaker C:If you're talking about Gen Z and attention spans.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So number one, Harley Quinn.
Speaker C:Two, the Joker.
Speaker C:Three, Renee Montoya the cop.
Speaker C:Roman Sionis, black mask, roller dummy.
Speaker C:Then there's Ralph Murray.
Speaker C:Then there's Mr. Sionis Driver.
Speaker C:Then there's Happy.
Speaker C:There's an unknown character.
Speaker C:These are all people you get introduced to who you're gonna.
Speaker C:Some time, you know they're gonna become useful.
Speaker C:There's another unknown who catapults something into Harley's apartment.
Speaker C:Then we go back to 26 years ago when it's the Bertinelli massacre.
Speaker C:Then we go to.
Speaker C:We get Cassandra Cain, then we get to the Black Canary, then we get to Mr. Leo, then we get the random angry woman, then we get to Doc, and then we get to Helena Bertinelli, the Huntress.
Speaker C:I'm like, what?
Speaker C:It's like when you go to the room and you go, oh, that's John, by the way.
Speaker C:Gone.
Speaker C:That's Paula.
Speaker C:Gone.
Speaker C:That's Steve.
Speaker C:Never gonna remember that.
Speaker C:I'm just like, what are we doing here?
Speaker C:I'm like, where's the story?
Speaker C:Just like, stop introducing me and do something with these characters.
Speaker C:Oh, I got angry.
Speaker B:You don't watch that many comic book films.
Speaker C:It's not my kind of thing.
Speaker B:Probably a hit to the system, but.
Speaker C:Ewan McGregor annoyed me.
Speaker C:Just his lack of belief.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:It just.
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker B:Every time it kind of brought down.
Speaker C:They could have cast that better, and it was just too much, too all over the place for me.
Speaker C:It wasn't.
Speaker C:There wasn't a fluidity for it where I could even have a guess what was gonna happen or.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I don't like.
Speaker C:I don't like chaos like that.
Speaker B:Well, do you remember when we were talking.
Speaker B:Was it solo, and you were saying, I just don't care?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's how I felt about kind of the story bit.
Speaker C:There's a lot of this.
Speaker B:The character stuff, but then the story.
Speaker C:I do like Harley Quinn as a character, but there was a lot of.
Speaker C:Like you said, I didn't care about the diamond.
Speaker C:I didn't care about all these characters that kept shoving in my face.
Speaker C:Even it kept going back to certain characters.
Speaker C:Like, okay, what did.
Speaker C:What did we achieve there?
Speaker C:It was just the randomness, obviously.
Speaker C:I know it's inside her brain, and it's.
Speaker C:It's meant to be chaotic because she is.
Speaker C:But not for me.
Speaker C:I'm gonna give it a three.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:How times have changed.
Speaker B:One year older, and look what's happened.
Speaker A:Have I just given the high scores two weeks in a row?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:No, you gave it 10.
Speaker C:You give it a 9.
Speaker C:But, yeah, we've had a turnaround that gives it 17.
Speaker A:17.
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker C:It's not bad.
Speaker B:So somewhere in the middle, I think.
Speaker C:Yes, actually, it's quite far down.
Speaker C:It puts it in 54th out of 73.
Speaker C:Okay, so it's just ahead of.
Speaker C:Just ahead of the beach and charade.
Speaker A:I'd be curious what our female listeners think of this movie.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it good feminism?
Speaker A:Does it make you hate men?
Speaker A:Does it make you feel strong and powerful?
Speaker A:Like, what's Your vibe.
Speaker B:And do the guys like it as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, because, you know, if you're saying there's guys hating on it for, I mean, specific reasons.
Speaker A:Internet guys, like, you know, YouTubers, real guys.
Speaker B:The Internet guys that are probably listening to us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Anyway, it's just ahead of the beach and charade, but it's just behind Spaceballs and crazy stupid love.
Speaker C:Weird company there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, so that's what we thought.
Speaker C:That's where it lands on the Legend League.
Speaker C:Let us know your thoughts on the movie.
Speaker C:You can send us a message.
Speaker C:You can email us or you can message on social media.
Speaker C:I'll read them out on the show.
Speaker A:Soundtrack was amazing though.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The movie, the music was pretty good.
Speaker C:It was pretty good.
Speaker C:What else?
Speaker C:What would be a good follow up then?
Speaker C:In our back catalog for this, the.
Speaker A:On the back catalog.
Speaker B:Have we done any comic book sort of stuff?
Speaker C:Not really, no.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's our first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Running Man's a good.
Speaker C:Running Man.
Speaker C:Be good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:We don't have that much Superman.
Speaker C:That's the closest thing I can think of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C: Superman: Speaker A:It's not that many kind of actiony movies with women.
Speaker A:There's a leader.
Speaker C:We've come now.
Speaker B:Or even just in that chaotic style.
Speaker B:Even forgetting the women's side of it.
Speaker B:Even just in that Kickstarter.
Speaker B:We haven't really explored that before.
Speaker C:Maybe the crow.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:The crows.
Speaker A:A good match.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Kobe, good follow after this.
Speaker A:Cool soundtrack as well.
Speaker C:Running Man.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So yeah, those.
Speaker C:A couple episodes you could check out after this.
Speaker C:Maybe a good fit.
Speaker C:So that takes us nicely into part three, which we have a sit down on the listener lounge.
Speaker A:Foreign.
Speaker C:So in the little lounge we have the lobby where we have your questions, your stories, any comments?
Speaker C:Then we ask our question of the week and we finish by revealing next week's movie.
Speaker C:So we've got a message.
Speaker C:It says, hi, guys.
Speaker C:There are certain films.
Speaker C:Almost starts off like it's answering a question, but.
Speaker C:And they don't mention which question they ask.
Speaker C:But anyway.
Speaker C:Hi, guys.
Speaker C:There are certain films I loved as a kid that I'm almost scared to re watch now.
Speaker C:Part of me wants to keep the memory untouched because I know if I watch them again, I'll probably notice all the dodgy acting, weird pacing and things that haven't aged well.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's just nostalgia is better left alone.
Speaker C:Based on the fact you guys unbox movies, I was wondering what your take was.
Speaker C:That's from Claire from Mansfield.
Speaker A:It's a really good question.
Speaker A:And I hit home with me with Indiana Jones and Lost Ark because I don't really want to go digging about how old Marion was and what happened between them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm watching it again, I'm like, ah, that feels kind of inappropriate.
Speaker A:But you know, now I'm a nearly 50 year old teacher and.
Speaker A:And I've got a daughter.
Speaker A:You know, it changes.
Speaker C:But we're providing a service so we're.
Speaker C:That's part of our job is to sort of.
Speaker A:But we, we experienced the nostalgia stuff though.
Speaker A:Like it's.
Speaker A:It's like it broke my heart.
Speaker A:The Big Trouble in Little China didn't hold up to what I remembered it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I was crying because this is.
Speaker B:Not very good and there's a few you've said.
Speaker B:I used to love this as a teenager and now I don't.
Speaker A:Well, also terrible, terrible movies like Hot Shots and.
Speaker C:But your perception of things is always gonna be like when you get older, get a tattoo.
Speaker C:What are they still gonna love it when they're 40?
Speaker C:What the chances?
Speaker C:Nah, it's just, it's just different perception.
Speaker B:Is it showing that I'm not growing up though, by the fact that I still love a lot of these movies I liked when I was a teen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like I think Darren's grown beyond Hot Shots and Bad Boys, whereas I'm like brilliant.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker A:We enjoyed Labyrinth, didn't we?
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I don't know if you did.
Speaker C:I just see this as a difference of opinion.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it is interesting how it does fluctuate over time and how we've said sometimes you'll go back and watch something, enjoy it more.
Speaker B:Sometimes you'll see some of the cracks.
Speaker B:Like, like they said it's a definite.
Speaker C:Real fear because I had that when we did anyone state.
Speaker C:But that actually held up.
Speaker C:I was terrified.
Speaker C:Like that's probably why I didn't do it so.
Speaker C:So soon.
Speaker C:Because I was like, ah, I don't want that to be pulled down from my mantle piece.
Speaker C:But it's still there.
Speaker C:It's fine.
Speaker A:But also I think we talked before that.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's the mood that you saw it in.
Speaker A:Like if the last movie you saw.
Speaker A:Last time you watched a movie was the last movie you saw with your dad before you passed away.
Speaker A:That's like a level of nostalgia and stuff that you can't impact or you.
Speaker A:Or you realize you love someone while you were watching like Mary Poppins with them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like those movies are gonna.
Speaker C:The first time someone said I love you was when a film was.
Speaker C:Or a song Was playing or.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm just gonna zone out now in a little bubble.
Speaker C:Anyway.
Speaker C:Thanks, Claire.
Speaker C:That was a good question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think the main takeaway is if you.
Speaker A:If you're seeing stuff that's problematic in the movie, just, you know, be proud of yourself and be proud of society.
Speaker C:You've grown because you've noticed it.
Speaker A:Grown and like, you know, breakfast couple bothers me because I used to freaking love Judd.
Speaker A:Judd Nelson's character in that, I believe.
Speaker A:You know, it's like the criminal.
Speaker A:They so different for me.
Speaker A:I was way more Anthony Michael at that age.
Speaker A:Still am now, really, and.
Speaker A:But he basically sexually assaults Claire in that movie.
Speaker C:Not Claire from Mansfield.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:Isn't it like there's a rape scene in it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we don't really notice it because it's like, oh, then he's turned up and punched him.
Speaker A:It's like, no, no.
Speaker A:If he hadn't turned up, that was going to go pretty freaking bad.
Speaker B:Yeah, but we've said this before, you know, we can't sanitize everything.
Speaker B:And sometimes you need these bad things in the film because that's what propels the narrative, isn't it?
Speaker B:So sometimes, all right, we're recognizing it in a different way, but it's still.
Speaker B:That's what it was at that time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's kind of captured in that world, and that's how I see them.
Speaker B:It's like that's captured in that world.
Speaker B:And it's not to say that I'm going to go outside and pretend I'm in Miami and go gangster on anyone, because I escaped to the movies.
Speaker B:I go to Miami and watch all the whatever.
Speaker B:And then I know that I'm not exactly going to jump in a Ferrari and start shooting people.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:That escapism is why I love the movies.
Speaker B:Not the kind of I see myself on screen or I don't, but.
Speaker A:But also, there's a case of, you're going to get out what you want.
Speaker A:So if you're a kid, like watching Drop Dead Fred, you're just going to think it's fun, that there's an imaginary guy making mud pie.
Speaker A:Watching that again as an adult, you're.
Speaker C:Like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah, but kids don't pick up on that.
Speaker C:As a parent.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So am I going to show this to my kid?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's not going to pick up on any of that stuff.
Speaker B:Well, I. I watched Top Gun as a kid and didn't pick up on Loads of stuff that I definitely pick up on that.
Speaker B:It was just like, whoa, the flying in jets.
Speaker B:It's cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So thanks, Claire.
Speaker C:Thanks for your question.
Speaker C:That's leave to go bait.
Speaker C:We might, I might have actually put that on the.
Speaker C:On the socials.
Speaker C:That was a good question.
Speaker A:Go.
Speaker C:Okay, that takes us on to this week's question of the movie.
Speaker B:Question of the movie.
Speaker A:That's what we need.
Speaker C:Question of the movie.
Speaker A:We need Kevin Smith to somehow listen to this and be like, we're cool guys, we can go.
Speaker A:And he's like a three hour long podcast.
Speaker A:Then we go on Rogan.
Speaker B:I love how you manifest these new things every week.
Speaker A:It's gonna happen.
Speaker C:So I don't know if we've done this before.
Speaker C:Sabrina has messaged on Instagram said, what's the best.
Speaker C:What is the best spin off movie?
Speaker A:Rogue One.
Speaker A:Would that count?
Speaker A:Was that part of the fact.
Speaker C:I don't know if she was meaning a character, but she just.
Speaker C:Because obviously these are all in line.
Speaker A:Can't think of any spin offs, let alone one.
Speaker C:Or maybe the question is, are there any spin off movies which are better than what it's this.
Speaker C:What it came from.
Speaker B:Spin off movies.
Speaker B:That's a tough one, isn't it?
Speaker B:I want to say Serenity as a spin off of the TV show Firefly.
Speaker C:We don't have to answer this now.
Speaker C:We can, we can.
Speaker C:You can have a think about it and come back.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But I keep thinking of TV shows with spin off characters more than this is.
Speaker C:Movies, movies.
Speaker C:Spin off movies from original.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, no, it's really hard because I was gonna say Furiosa is a pretty solid movie, but it's also a prequel to Mad Max.
Speaker A:It's not really a.
Speaker B:See, they tend not to be spin offs.
Speaker B:They tend to be more prequels or sequences.
Speaker C:And a still spin off though.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess because it's following a different character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's probably as close as we can probably get, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:It's not as good as definitely not solo.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Episode is now available.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So there you go.
Speaker C:This week's question from Sabrina on Instagram, what is the best spin off movie?
Speaker C:So if you'd like to have a question featured on the show, send in your questions and we'll read some out on the show.
Speaker C:We'll pick the best one.
Speaker C:We'll pick the best one that brings out the most engagement or maybe ask you.
Speaker C:Start asking you in advance.
Speaker C:That takes us on to next week's movie.
Speaker A:Okay, Paul, it's on you Mr. Paul Day.
Speaker C:Where we going?
Speaker C:What we doing?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I've had about 900 thoughts, which I always do on this, and I finally spun the wheel in my head and landed on something that I don't think we've done.
Speaker B:So I think this is a first.
Speaker B:We haven't done an animated movie yet.
Speaker A:No, we haven't.
Speaker A:Or documentary.
Speaker A:Are we allowed to do documentaries?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a shame.
Speaker B:Taylor Swift is very quickly jumping in my head.
Speaker A:Are we allowed to do animated movies?
Speaker B:Of course we can.
Speaker B:The movies.
Speaker B:Are we allowed to do animated movies?
Speaker B:Get out of here.
Speaker B:So we're gonna do an animated movie, and I can't remember what year it's from, but it's a bit of a classic.
Speaker B:It spawned many a sequel.
Speaker B:Mike Myers, Cameron Diaz, Eddie Murphy.
Speaker C:Shrek.
Speaker C:Yay.
Speaker B:Okay, let's do an animated one.
Speaker C:I just said yay because we did.
Speaker C:We spoke exactly the same.
Speaker C:That's gonna be funny in the edit.
Speaker C:Not because I particular like the movie.
Speaker C:What all will be revealed?
Speaker B:Don't know.
Speaker A:What's it on?
Speaker B:It's on Netflix.
Speaker B:So I basically went scanning Netflix and came up with about 10 movies which were 10 different genres.
Speaker B:And I'm like, I don't know which way I'm gonna go.
Speaker B:So I came in here tonight thinking it'll just.
Speaker C:Yeah, I've seen Shrek a few times.
Speaker C:I'm looking forward to watching it with these new.
Speaker B:Yeah, our goggles.
Speaker C:So we'll see what we miss on boots.
Speaker A:Be a spin off movie for that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was going to say that, but I didn't want to ruin my boots.
Speaker B:But Puss in Boots only shows up in Shrek 2, which is probably my favorite.
Speaker B:Shrek.
Speaker B:But we have to do Shrek 1 first.
Speaker B:We do.
Speaker B:So let's go Shrek.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:To an animated one.
Speaker C:Put it on the board.
Speaker C:It's a good shift.
Speaker C:It's a good shift.
Speaker B:Just for a change.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Thank you very much, Paul.
Speaker C:Okay, that brings us to the end of the show.
Speaker C:Thank you for listening.
Speaker C:We really do appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedules to spend some time with us.
Speaker C:If you would like to help us, one of the simple ways you can do it is by giving us a rating and review in whatever app you're listening to.
Speaker C:Spotify, Apple, podcasts.
Speaker C:Give us a rating and review.
Speaker C:That would greatly, greatly help us.
Speaker C:Thank you very much.
Speaker C:Okay, this episode is officially over.
Speaker C:This is Mark saying goodbye.
Speaker A:This is Darren saying goodbye for now.
Speaker B:Six bucks for tap water with a cucumber in it.
Speaker B:That's crazy.
Speaker A:I somehow forgotten what movie we just did?
Speaker B:Harley Quinn.
Speaker A:Okay.
