The Bourne Identity - In A Nutshell(Listener Choice)

Marc: 00:00:12

Hello and welcome to Movies in a Nutshell with me, Marc Farquhar, myself, Darren.

Paul: 00:00:16

Horn and I, Paul Day.

Marc: 00:00:18

We help you spend less time browsing and more time watching.

Darren: 00:00:21

If you've seen the movie, we'll reveal what you might have missed. If you haven't, we'll give you a quick spoiler free breakdown.

Marc: 00:00:26

We've got behind the scenes trivia including Paul's facts of the day, host ratings.

Darren: 00:00:29

And a legend league table, plus your. Chance to choose a movie.

Marc: 00:00:33

So grab some popcorn and let's jump into this week's movie. Okay, here we go. The Bourne Identity, which was a listener Choice chosen by A.D. willen.

Paul: 00:00:44

Thanks, A.D. thanks for your choice.

Marc: 00:00:46

I had not seen it before, so it was the first time for me. I knew it was one of those films that I should have seen and everyone else has seen it.

So we are in part one, which is the nutshell where we will break the movie down spoiler free to help you decide if it's a movie for you. How do we break this down? What's this movie about? It has identity in the title, so.

Darren: 00:01:02

That gives it away.

Marc: 00:01:03

It's a journey of discovery.

Darren: 00:01:04

A journey of discovery of his identity. His.

Marc: 00:01:07

Who is he? Is he a. Is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy?

Darren: 00:01:10

Who knows?

Marc: 00:01:10

Is he a loser?

Darren: 00:01:11

Who knows?

Marc: 00:01:12

Is he a hero?

Darren: 00:01:12

Is he Matt Damon? Well, we know he's Matt Damon. Yeah. Much like he was being born again. Oh, there's the nutshell. End of episode. Boom. Nailed it.

Marc: 00:01:24

What's this movie about? Them?

Darren: 00:01:25

That's about paranoia. Loneliness to a certain extent. And a deep distrust of the security organizations that our governments employ.

Marc: 00:01:35

And like I said, like many movies in many different ways. Identity.

Darren: 00:01:40

Yeah.

Marc: 00:01:40

Or lack thereof. And a journey, some kind of journey to discovery.

Darren: 00:01:44

And it's a spy thriller.

Marc: 00:01:46

Yeah. It's about survival. Do what you have to do to survive. It's about instinct, reacting naturally to extreme. In extreme circumstances.

Darren: 00:01:52

Yeah. It's also about. It's not self efficacy. What's that word or phrase where you can just. You can take care of yourself, where you're Reliance.

Self alliance. Yeah. So that's self reliance. And yeah, standing on your own two feet and just taking care of business.

Marc: 00:02:07

But like I said, the instincts kick in. Like you work to situations because you've got no memory. You're like, oh, I've just reacted to that. Like, it's like your.

So your, your past is coming forward but you don't remember it. It's quite a. It's also. This is a game of Cat and mouse is quite good. It's a journey for the most part.

You don't know if it's hero's journey or a villain's journey. Literally, you're. You're on the journey with him.

Darren: 00:02:25

in this movie. Well, this was: 2002

Marc: 00:02:42

I was 21 when this movie came out. Okay, so the basics of it. Part A. A man is pulled from the sea with no memory, but with instincts and skills suggest some kind of past.

Darren: 00:02:51

Yeah.

Marc: 00:02:52

There may be a dangerous.

Darren: 00:02:53

Multiple languages. Take care of himself.

Marc: 00:02:55

Yeah. As he searches for answers across Europe, he discovered his name, what he thinks is his name, and shadowy forces in.

Darren: 00:03:01

The background, shadowy governmental forces are trying to track him down at the same time.

Marc: 00:03:05

So he's kind of caught between who he. Who he thinks he is and who he wants to be. He must survive long enough to choose his own identity in the end, I guess his destiny.

Darren: 00:03:13

And in the meantime, he runs into Run Lola Run. Yes, he does.

Marc: 00:03:16

Yes. Lola. Yeah. Yeah. Marie.

Darren: 00:03:18

Did you recognize Marie?

Marc: 00:03:19

I did. Straight away. Boom. Anything movies this can be compared to. I do not have a movie. Two movies. This one.

Darren: 00:03:26

I've written down a few. See if you agree. Darren, you'll probably think more. So I went with. Obviously there's the Bond comparisons, but like modern Bond, Daniel Craig Bond. So they're less cartoony Bonds.

So what happened was. And again, kind of getting into the deep cultural impact of this, but it's probably worth saying.

So in: 2002

I think it's jinx galore. Yeah, but. But that had come out and it's really good. But then Born Identity came out and had this sort of style.

orget Twin Towers was only in: 2001

So they then modeled Daniel Craig Bond very much on Born Identity. So if you like the Daniel Craig Bond films, you're probably gonna like the style of Bond identity because that's where I think they got it from.

That's. I'm sure what they said.

Marc: 00:04:33

Was this a book? Initially it was, yeah.

Darren: 00:04:35

But it's also a remake. Yeah. So there's a miniseries with Richard Chamberlain. Yeah.

Which I've never seen, but my old keyboard player back in the day used to rave about that.

Marc: 00:04:44

Yeah. When I mentioned just like, a couple of my friends were like, which one? I was like, the Matt Damon one.

Darren: 00:04:50

See, I didn't realize it was a miniseries until I was doing the Facts of the Day.

Marc: 00:04:53

Oh, so it's not a previous movie.

Darren: 00:04:54

It sounds like it's a miniseries, but then they put it on video, like, as a bit of a movie, and apparently that was more like the book. Whereas this film's very light, likely like the book. Okay, so. So there's the Bond films, Mission Impossible films, Enemy of the State.

I know you like that one.

Marc: 00:05:10

Definitely.

Darren: 00:05:10

Possibly. Jack Reacher, Jack Jack Ryan, that kind of stuff. Jack Ryan, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I put the new Italian Job, bit of that in there. The Matt Wahlberg one, the Saint, the Val Kilmer one I've seen.

Maybe that kind of style where it was sort of 90s spy espionage cities, that kind of vibe. I also put Leon in Heat, potentially, and any of you Marvel people.

I also put down Captain America, Winter Soldier, and Black Widow, potentially, just because of the kind of spy elements I know you haven't seen in the Marvel ones. But Munich. Yeah, that's a good call.

Marc: 00:05:41

Good references there. So that should help people get a feel for where this fits in.

Darren: 00:05:45

It feels like an old: 1970

Marc: 00:05:53

Okay, let's move on to part two, which is the unboxing, which is located right in the middle of Spoiler Territor.

Darren: 00:06:03

Yeah. I was gonna say this is also just a love story about a guy who's trying to get it on with the lass, and his job keeps getting in the way.

Yeah, there is that, because I've just ended that.

Marc: 00:06:14

I'm gonna have to edit that back in. But that was good. Did you not hear me finish the segment?

Darren: 00:06:18

Yeah, but I thought that that was a spoiler because the love story. Yeah, that's true.

Marc: 00:06:22

Okay, that's good. Okay, so in part two, we have. What did you miss? Where we will uncover things you may have missed, even if you've seen the movie many times.

Then we have Paul's Facts of the Day where he will amaze us with his Hours of research and he will pick the best ones.

Darren: 00:06:37

Hours studying.

Marc: 00:06:38

And then we've finalized Part two with Hate it or Rate it, where we each give our opinion on the movie plus a score of 10 and we see where it lands on the Legend League. Darren, let's go over to you for. What did you miss?

Darren: 00:06:48

I don't know. Like, I did wonder if the color red was doing something that color red was like a safe thing for him. Because I'm sure.

Did she have red in her hair or was it just like. I'm looking at her like Lola load of on. I don't think she did.

I feel like she had. Because I look, I did a double take and I was.

I'm sure there's some red strands or some reddishness or it's brownie red or something like that, you know. But then she has a red car and 98.

Marc: 00:07:12

. And this is: 2002

Darren: 00:07:14

See, that's weird, isn't it? Because in my head, I feel like this isn't a different time zone.

Marc: 00:07:18

They're very different stylistically. Yeah, you wouldn't.

Darren: 00:07:21

But. But in the facts of the day, I think there's bits around the director wanted her for this role.

So originally it might have been something else, but it's like, no, no, I want Run Lola Run in this film. I won't try and say her name so you don't have to edit it out. Thanks.

Other than that, I really didn't spot that much else. I mean, it is about. I mean, Paul was right. I was so proud of you, but you kind of shouted everything. I was going to say that it's not.

It wasn't made like after 9 11. It would have been written before 9 11. It would have been in production probably around that time.

Marc: 00:07:50

It probably had to stop and go back to it.

Darren: 00:07:52

Yeah. And apparently I read a little bit that the production was a bit of a shit show. And then line 11 happened and then it got kind of pushed through.

So it was a luck thing. It's not about 9 11, but I think it was a hit because we. There was a lot of dialogue around security agencies and what isn't. Isn't appropriate.

There was definitely an awareness that these massive kind of spy agencies and like undercover agents were out there working for us. And also an element of which quickly became distrust in the agencies as a conspiracy. The theories around 911 started to spring up.

And then you got this movie where it's like, oh, they are up to Shady stuff. And they're also incompetent and also not trustworthy. Well, governments are incompetent.

Right. And I think that it became like a sense of contempt because basically, I mean, what is these, you know, this security organization?

Was it the program school? Isn't it? Yeah, it's a bunch of old white guys dictating what should and shouldn't be done. And he said, come on, these guys are idiots. I think Agent Langley or whatever comes in the second one, the lady Stats. Oh, yeah.

Thinking she's all part of treadstones off. But yeah, in this one it is very much Brian Cox and just. Yes, Cooper.

Yeah. And he's like, what are we gonna do? Like, so go bring him in. Like, ask him what happened. Like, tranquilize him or something.

No, no, activate every one of the other agents because nothing's going to go wrong, even though this agent went rogue.

So let's get all the other agents who are going to be perfectly stable and aren't having headaches and aren't going to freaking become mental because of what you've done to them. And we'll send those out into the field. What? Course.

And it's also this weird American thing as well. It's like, yeah, we're going to have. Which agent were you? Which country we in?

So wait, you've got agents in every other country, I'm guessing they don't know you're there. So you're just the police for the world, aren't you? America. Fuck, yeah. Spreading democracy and liberty everywhere you go. You couldn't. You couldn't tell because I was in character. I'm an actor. Yeah, amazing. But. But there's. It's.

It's a weird film because he then has a conscience, right? Like, he is. He can't kill this person because they've got kids and he's like, I can't do this.

Marc: 00:09:57

Well, I feel that's. We find out that's why he failed his original mission, because he has a conscience and a heart.

Darren: 00:10:02

Yeah.

And it takes a while for us to find that out if. Remember, isn't it, before we get that flashback of till the end. Which is good because, like you say, it kept us guessing all the way through.

Is he good guy? Is he bad guy? What. What's his moral compass?

Yeah, and you're right. I mean, it did kind of change the action movies to a certain extent.

And, like, if you go back further in time to, I know, the adventures of womanhood, like, if you had a sword fight in that era. So Adventures of Womanhood. Jesus went. Is that four years before?

Yeah, I think it's always the actors would have to learn sword fighting because it's going to be a long take.

Marc: 00:10:36

Authentic.

Darren: 00:10:36

It's going to be a long take. It's going to be long shots and mid shots. Like it's going to be certainly two shots and these guys are going to have to sword fight.

Same with Princess Bride to a certain extent, which is 80s, I think. Whereas in this we start to get that quick kinetic action. Whereas we like Kung Fu move, say like Chucky, Jackie Chan or whatever. You have long takes.

These actors are really doing it and they're showing off that they can really do this. And so, so then it starts to come down and I think the average cut across the film is four seconds in this movie. So it's 1, 2, 3, 4, cut.

So in the fight scenes it's probably quicker. Like 1, 2, cut, 1, 2, cup. And that got. That got reduced as it went on. So by the sequel it was 2.4 seconds and the third one it was 2 seconds.

So average cut of every 2 seconds. Wow. I always felt the second one was more cut. Even the third one though. Absolutely. Other than the third one, I remember.

Seeing the second one being quite tired, trying to stay awake with the extra cuts. And I was struggling because it was so fast. And I don't know if it's a good or bad thing. And the good thing is you can get people like. Who's Count Dooku in Star Wars? Christopher Lee.

Yes, Christopher lee, who's probably 97 or something crazy in that movie. And you can get him doing sword fights because. Or like, you know, lightsaber fights because you're going to cut around it.

But is it because we're like, oh, I'd rather see these guys really do it. But yeah, this really kind of changed the cinema, the, the landscape of action movies.

And you're right, like James Bond went from being a cartoon to really gritty black and white opening guy being killed in a toilet, you know.

Yeah.

Well, I remember watching the behind the scenes stuff of Dying of the Day and it was a shame really in the sense that, see, I really like Pierce Brodner's James Bond. I thought it was a good Bond.

And when you watch the behind the scenes of Die Another Way, it's clear they were trying to lean into whatever the, the trends were at that time, which was there was more cgi.

So they were actually trying to push the envelope with all the scenes that we now look at go, oh, invisible Car and windsurfing and all that, that was actually them trying to do good, to be up to date, to push Bond into the new century. And it kind of backfired.

Marc: 00:12:31

They always do it too much, don't they?

Darren: 00:12:32

Yeah.

Marc: 00:12:33

I remember when there was 3D, was everything. Yeah, it was movies that had no need to be in 3D, were in 3D. Everything was. Everyone was doing it was just ridiculous.

Darren: 00:12:40

So what Bonded and I watched the behind the scenes thing of this one on the Blu Ray. You'd be proud of me. Yeah. But Frank Marshall and Matt Damon everyone's talking about. Yeah.

We wanted to make something different to what all the other action movies were at the time. So Bond, in a way, was trying its best to do something good. And it backfired because everyone's like, oh, that's too.

And especially with 9 11, everyone had been a bit more serious, probably. So they're thinking, oh, invisible cars, what load of crap.

So Pierce Brosnan was probably thinking he was going to do a fifth one and I kind of wanted him to do a fifth one. But then when Bourne came out, it changed the landscape and they're like, no, we need to just scratch this.

Marc: 00:13:14

We need someone like you said.

Darren: 00:13:16

All of a sudden it was black and white. Daniel Craig, very serious, completely different landscape. And you can see that impact of that Bourne film straight away. Also, Pierce Brosnan wasted the opportunity to say the line, I'm sure I left my car around here somewhere.

Right. If you're listening, if you're listening, you should have thrown that in. Yeah, it's good, it's good.

Yeah. But there's a lot of other things that I quite liked it because a lot of times spy movies are seamless. Like, everything goes their way.

Like, so James Bondi Everything goes your way. And a lot of stuff goes wrong for this guy.

And there's bits like, you know, where he's trying to get away, but he drops the bag and it's our dude and he's got to go a different way. But I also like the bit where he's this.

They're building up to some elaborate heist, really, to get into the hotel to get the bill I think they were after. And he's like, okay, I need you to like, count how many feet it is and I'm going to guide you. And then we're going to do this and do this.

And she's like, oh, I just asked the guy. Yeah. And he gave it to me and he said, ask the guy. She says, yeah. I said, who's personal assistant.

Marc: 00:14:12

And he's like, oh, that's good.

Darren: 00:14:14

Okay.

Marc: 00:14:15

It's like, it's like when you like a super one of those movies, a superhero with flaws kind of thing.

Darren: 00:14:18

Yeah. It's like when Deadpool forgets the bag of guns.

Marc: 00:14:22

Yeah.

Darren: 00:14:24

But it makes it more real. And again in the behind the scenes when they're talking about it, it's like they really wanted it to be character driven action rather than.

Because what we in: 2002

And they were like, no, we wanted to be character based action. So yeah, there's gonna be them action scenes. But we wanted it very based around this story of him find himself and then like you say it then changed.

So all the action films that sort of then preceded that would have this.

Marc: 00:14:48

Well, we'd have.

Darren: 00:14:49

Trying to Be Bold.

Marc: 00:14:49

in: 2000

Darren: 00:14:51

Yeah.

Marc: 00:14:52

Not long before that.

Darren: 00:14:52

And that's another good example of, you know that out of the Mission Impossible films is probably the most extreme of. It was a John Woo thing. So it's slow Motion Motorbike 1 on the.

Marc: 00:15:01

On the rocks in the middle of nowhere, hanging off which Tom Cruise obviously he said nut job for doing all that stuff by himself.

Darren: 00:15:07

Legendary nut job.

But then When Mission Impossible 3 rolled around, I can't remember what year that was, they kind of pulled it back a bit from Mission Impossible 2's craziness. And then by the time Mission Impossible 4 and 5 and some of the others, they'd sort of been a bit more born identity as well.

So as you get through them, they actually become more serious again. All right. There's still the crazy stunts.

Marc: 00:15:27

So it has an impact basically. Definitely big impacts.

Darren: 00:15:29

Yeah. Especially on the action film genre.

There's also a little, a little element in, you know, the fact he doesn't kill the kids is that you can't just use. I'm just following orders. And. And he was like, no, look, I'm. You know, he clearly makes a decision. I'm not going to do that.

And what's going on in the world right now is interesting because there's an awful lot of people in both this country and in America certainly who are following orders and doing some seriously shady stuff. You know, I've seen the police in our country like arresting 91 year old women for wearing a T shirt. It's. There's some weird stuff going on for sure.

So yeah, that was cool.

And I also like the fact that I now know that dyeing a woman's hair and washing her hair and cutting her hair is one of the horniest things you can experience on the planet. Far hornier than making a clay pot. I wonder if he'd go there. And you did. It's horny, right?

Marc: 00:16:23

Have you done both?

Darren: 00:16:24

No. The ghost scene, I was like, what is that?

Marc: 00:16:27

Oh, it's just so cheesy that I never bought into that.

Darren: 00:16:30

Yeah. No one. I've never met a woman who is willing to make that much mess for sex. If you're listening, listeners, have you ever done this?

Marc: 00:16:39

I noticed Marie quickly gets lost in Jason's journey.

Darren: 00:16:43

Every.

Marc: 00:16:43

She asked so many questions. Who was that? Where are you going? What just happened? Where are we going? What are you doing? Those. Every. She was just complete. Every.

Every scenes are asking a question about it. She hasn't got a clue. She can't keep up with him.

Darren: 00:16:54

Yeah, but I feel like that's us going, who's that?

Marc: 00:16:57

Yeah, she represents us, the listener.

Darren: 00:16:59

But also, how quickly does she fall for him? I know this is just a mysterious stranger. They like that kind of thing. Actually, I'm kind of in love with him. Yeah. So that happened fast.

See, if Matt Damon had come at my seminars, he could have been friend zone and got on with his job. Right, right. Friend zone in a day. Oh, yeah. With poor day. Right.

Marc: 00:17:20

Friend Zone all day by Paul Day.

Darren: 00:17:22

Let's. Let's get that. Let's get that spin off podcast in the works.

Marc: 00:17:25

I see the first book coming. The first book.

Darren: 00:17:27

Okay. Yeah. Volume one.

She is adorable. Like when she's kind of putting the whole hair behind her ear and she's like, well, can I come? Do you want me to come? Oh, no, I'll see you.

Whatever you say. We can come upstairs, say, oh, my God, it's like they've been on a date. Very interesting.

Marc: 00:17:40

The world's weirdest date.

Darren: 00:17:42

Right? But yeah, she falls from. I mean, he's good looking, so things.

Marc: 00:17:46

I picked up on identity versus conditioning. Like, Bourne's muscle memory clashes with his. Like, his emerging conscience. Like, he knows he can do things, but like, oh, I don't want to do that.

Which is kind of what happened in the first place.

Darren: 00:17:57

I think. Also he's aware that this skill base is starting to make him seem like a bad guy.

He said, what possible reason could I have to know this or do this or whatever.

I wrote down one of the lines which links into what you were saying, that she's always asking questions where she said, he went out the window. Why would someone do that? Yeah. That was cool. It's like, why would you do that? It's almost like a Seinfeld thing. Like.

Marc: 00:18:18

Yeah, she's. She's kind of not. She's not just a tag along. She's almost. She almost humanizes his. Or she steers his choices by just being herself.

Darren: 00:18:26

Jason, who's out there, It's Clive Owen.

Marc: 00:18:29

She asks questions, but also makes him think, which influences his choices because he's. He is a bit lost. Yeah, he's kind of fumbling his way through this. So anyway, she's kind of.

Darren: 00:18:37

I love her horror as well when she's like, I'm on this picture. What, the fight. Who are you? And she tries to attack the guy. He's like, no, I do this. You stay over there. But I like the fight scenes. They were.

They were solid. They were.

Marc: 00:18:49

Yeah.

Darren: 00:18:49

Quick and kinetic, but they were vicious. It reminds me of Grosse Pointe. Blanket places. Oh, yeah, because he uses the pen.

Marc: 00:18:54

I like the location. Zurich and Paris.

Darren: 00:18:57

Yeah.

Marc: 00:18:57

It seemed like the gritty realism.

Darren: 00:18:59

Yeah. Like a lack of kind of Marvel CGI type of stuff. It was like, okay, I believe you're in this city. I believe you're hurtling around everywhere.

That's cool.

Marc: 00:19:07

Did anyone else pick up on some of the shots? So earlier on there was a lot of handheld kind of almost claustrophobic shots.

But then later on, much more wider shots as he gained sort of more control. Everything seems to be zoomed out.

Darren: 00:19:21

Yeah, that's good call. And. And the director did a lot of it. He's very hands on director Doug Lyman, from what we hear. Yeah. And he did a lot of them handheld shots himself, probably.

Marc: 00:19:30

It worked.

Darren: 00:19:30

I felt it worked, I think so.

The only other thing I was going to say was around Treadstone and the government side of it is sort of the counter narrative going on throughout it, which is very 24 in a way as well, where you've got like the two things going on.

Marc: 00:19:42

It's funny, the operatives that come to like tackle him and like sort of his compatriots, aren't they like same training but just different choices. Because he hasn't. Because he's lost his memory. He's not thinking like them, but they mirror each other in quite a lot of ways. But obviously he's.

He's thinking just survival, whereas they've got. Obviously got a mission.

Darren: 00:19:58

Because this is quite a big breakout role, I think, for Clive Owen. Because at that point.

Marc: 00:20:01

Oh, yeah, I really like him.

Darren: 00:20:03

Yeah. He was in the running for Bond. I think around that time he was One of the front runners with Daniel.

Marc: 00:20:07

Craig, and I really liked him in Henry Cavill and Some of the Inside Man.

Darren: 00:20:11

I haven't seen that one. I haven't seen it either. I watched one called oh, Recognize.

Marc: 00:20:14

I could maybe recommend that. Let's move on to Paul's Facts of the Day.

Darren: 00:20:19

Facts of the day. Okay.

Marc: 00:20:20

You'll have some for this.

Darren: 00:20:21

Surely there's lots of facts for this, right? Let's do some facts of the day. Matt Damon climbed down the last 30ft of the building himself without a stunt double. He called.

The most grueling thing I had to do. He also trained for about. I wrote this down. I think they said it in the documentary. I think it was about three months before.

Yeah, three months training before the actual film started filming. And part of that was all.

He went through hundreds of hours of gun training so he'd look comfortable holding a weapon, which he obviously does in the film. He also trained in the Filipino martial art Kali.

For the movie, Kali involves using the aggressor's energy against him and conserving your own energy. So there's a lot of thought going into the fight scenes. This goes to what you said about the camera stuff.

So Doug Liman, the director, wanted the camera operator to be late moving the camera, adding an edge to the photography. So he didn't let.

Marc: 00:21:07

It's like you're struggling to keep up with what's going on. Yeah, yeah.

Darren: 00:21:10

So he didn't used to watch. Let them rehearse. Watch them rehearse. So then he didn't know all the cues.

Marc: 00:21:16

Yeah, yeah.

Darren: 00:21:17

So that's probably why it's got that edge.

Marc: 00:21:18

You don't really see that very often. It's not. It's not a widely used technique that. But it works.

Darren: 00:21:22

round that time period. As of: 2014

And it's still a very loose adaptation. So the book, if you've read the books, you're probably thinking they're not loosely.

Marc: 00:21:37

Based on the book, and then they just sort of gone in their own direction.

Darren: 00:21:39

I know a lot of the Bond books potentially like this. I haven't read them, but, like, I imagine Moonraker isn't quite what ended up in the Rochamo film and some of the others, so.

th March: 2001

So I wonder if he actually saw any of it. But Matt Damon was surprised when he was offered the role because in the book, Bourne is much older, a much older man.

But Lyman told me he didn't want to. To do James Bond. He saw it more as a European Nikita. That's a good call. I never thought of that one as a composition.

Marc: 00:22:21

Also having a younger male doing it, this differentiates it more from James Bond because James Bond's always been. Always been an older, older sort of distinguished gentleman, whereas he's a young, younger guy. So I think that works.

Darren: 00:22:31

Yeah. And again, maybe that's what sort of gave it that fresh look, I suppose, I think.

So it's headed that Brad Pitt was actually offered the role of Jason Bourne, but he turned it down to do Spy Game.

Marc: 00:22:39

I couldn't see Brad Pitt doing that, I don't think. Has Bradford done anything like that?

Darren: 00:22:43

Well, maybe Spy Game, but I haven't seen it. I don't know what that sounds like. Stop at Harrison Ford.

Marc: 00:22:48

I've never seen him as like an action hero.

Darren: 00:22:49

Leading man Doug Lyman wanted Matt Damon to walk like a boxer. Damon explained there was kind of directness in it and an efficiency about the way he moved.

Marc: 00:22:58

Boxers are always walking for a fight.

Darren: 00:22:59

So like myself, of course. Yeah, yeah, got that swagger.

Marc: 00:23:03

Right. That'll be in your book as well.

Paul: 00:23:05

scene in Ronan, which was in: 1990

There's lots of stories, like you said, Darren, about there's a bit of chaos with Doug Lyman and the way he worked with the producers. So there's a bit of a clash going on because I put into ChatGPT at one point to say, why didn't he return to do the other films?

Because obviously he was a big part of why they wanted him for the first one. And it was around him wanting to film in Paris and the producers being like, well, can't we just do it over here?

And he's like, no, no, I want to be in Paris. So I think he caused a few headaches, but maybe that's why it worked and it felt so great.

Marc: 00:23:46

That's why he had a vision.

Darren: 00:23:47

That's why they probably brought in Paul Greengrass for the. I think chatgpt said he was a Bit more used to working with producers and probably doing what they said. So, final one.

Against the advice of his sound mixers, Doug Lyman chose to take out the classic Universal music over the opening logo and instead includes ambient sounds from the film. And the mixers told Lyman the music over the logo was generally a cue to the audience to shut up.

But Lyman went against their input and as he notes, they were right. Evidently, the audiences Lyman saw the film with for the first time talked over the beginning of the film.

Marc: 00:24:20

Well, you expect that movie, the usual move. But if it's not that you get. You see what you expect but you're not hearing it, it kind of makes you go, something's happening here.

Darren: 00:24:29

I feel like maybe over this: 2001

Marc: 00:24:35

There's always. There's variations of them as well.

Darren: 00:24:36

But it used to be maybe very traditional of it. I think this is also this probably the start of Matt Damon making mega bucks.

Marc: 00:24:43

Yes, it will have been.

Darren: 00:24:45

I know Matt Damon well.

Marc: 00:24:46

Certainly not. Certainly after this.

Darren: 00:24:48

Leading up to this, he hadn't had some massive hits.

Particularly like, I know he was annoyed that he wasn't in Ben Affleck's the Town because he thought he'd have the Hawkeye role. And I've seen him say it. And Ben Affleck is like, what, are you kidding me? Like, your fee would have been the budget to the film.

And Dame was like, yeah, then it would have been. And obviously turned down Avatar, didn't he? He did. And he would have got 10.

Yeah. Oh, he still talks about that. He's like, yeah, shouldn't have talked. I shouldn't have turned out Avatar. Yeah, he'd have been billions up on that.

Apparently James Cameron said, look, I don't need you for this film. The star is the effects, but I want you. I think you'd be good in it. And I'll give you 10 of the profit. Like it would have just been. Yes, rolling. It would have been like the highest paid actor. It's just insane.

Marc: 00:25:31

Cool. Thanks for your facts, Paul.

Darren: 00:25:32

Yep.

Marc: 00:25:34

Let's move on to hate it or rate it. Let's go to Darren first on this one.

Darren: 00:25:39

Yeah, it was a bit meh for me. I. I was checking my phone a lot. I actually fast forward some parts. I. For me, it couldn't hold my attention for the full. Is it two hours?

Yeah, I got a bit bored. I didn't really have a great sense of jeopardy with it. I never really thought he was in danger.

Marc: 00:25:55

Are you really familiar with this film? You've seen it a lot of times?

Darren: 00:25:57

Not a lot. I would have seen it maybe two, three times, maybe before. And I think that it's one of those films that's a real good product of its time.

it the zeitgeist of the early: 2000

There's nothing really innovative about it. It's almost a little bit cartoonish now. Like, the security service are old white guys who are mean and they're a bit incompetent.

Yeah, okay, whatever. Do something new. I think when you've had movies like, say, Socaro, which have just got a little bit more. I suppose they built on the grittiness of this. This kind of started the realism, but then they built on it to go grittier.

I didn't hugely enjoy it, and so I'll probably give it a four. You know, I think it is a good film and it did change the landscape of action movies. But I don't think I would ever watch it again.

Marc: 00:26:47

Oh, wow, Paul.

Darren: 00:26:47

No, I liked it. I can see where Darren's coming from. And you feel like it is now very much product of its time. But I still found it gripping. Some great sequences.

I still like the car chase bear, and I do like the relationship between them and the way you discover it as he discovers it. And the surround sound on the initial storm was pretty damn cool.

Yeah, there's better ones, but I appreciate, I think, the impact it had with its slickness and things. But I came away still enjoying it, and I do really want to watch the sequels again now.

Marc: 00:27:17

We actually haven't done any sequels yet on this show, but year two. All sequels.

Darren: 00:27:23

All the sequels. All the second film. But no, I still think in. In that genre. Hot Shots partway. Yeah, in that genre.

And obviously I kind of hate it a little bit because of the way it took a bit of the humor out Bond. Because I kind of like my Bond with a bit of that. I know it kind of has a bit of it still, but they tried to make it into Bond.

I'm like, no, you're your own thing, man. You could have pulled back some of the sillier elements and still had a. Did Austin Powers come out after this? No, before, so. Because it feels like Austin Powers would be a response to Casino Royale, so. It's weird.

Yeah. No Austin Powell.

Marc: 00:28:01

I never thought about that.

Darren: 00:28:02

No Austin Powers, like, 97. I want to say something like that. The first one.

Marc: 00:28:06

Yeah.

Darren: 00:28:06

Second one was about 99 because it. Feels like they're like you're doing James Bond wrong. It should be this.

Marc: 00:28:11

There's a movie I need to watch again.

Darren: 00:28:13

Yeah. So I'm still saying it's a very solid action thriller. I'm gonna give it a solid seven. How about you? You've never seen it before, so.

Marc: 00:28:20

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Obviously I've not seen it before but like this is one of those I've not seen. I've not seen many Mission Impossibles.

Darren: 00:28:27

No.

Marc: 00:28:27

So this is a genre where I, I want to see more. And as. As being able to see it for the first time, I felt like quite lucky.

Darren: 00:28:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marc: 00:28:35

I wasn't, I didn't have too much to compare it to. I enjoy his journey of his self discovery. I wasn't like. I was gripped and I like the relationship, the chemistry between them too. Is it.

Is he going to stick with him? Is she going to ditch him? Is he going to get rid of her?

Darren: 00:28:48

Yeah.

Marc: 00:28:48

And then obviously him trying to be thwarted and caught up by his employers. Yeah.

Darren: 00:28:54

It's like you said, Darren, you just try to go on a day, get back to work. Yeah.

Marc: 00:28:58

No, I enjoyed all that. It was, it was quite simplistic but I, I was, I was, I was up for that and I really enjoyed it all the way through.

I didn't, I didn't get bored and I actually managed to watch it. I was on my own at night, sitting. I sat with a pizza and a beer.

Darren: 00:29:10

Nice. That's the way.

Marc: 00:29:12

Just. Yeah. From beginning to end. I really enjoyed it. I'm gonna give it a solid seven, same as you. Yeah, it was really good.

So I'll put that in the calcimator 18. I'll put that in the league and see where it lands. 25th out of 36.

Darren: 00:29:25

Isn't that just coming real close to Crazy Stupid Love?

Marc: 00:29:29

Yeah, It's. That was 17.5. This is 18.

Darren: 00:29:32

Wow.

Marc: 00:29:32

So it's just below Snatch and just above Crazy Stupid Love and Cra. Leave the World behind and Crazy Stupid Love are tied on 17.5. Let's move on to part three, which is the Listen A lounge. Okay.

Welcome to the Listen Lounge.

So in the Listen Lounge we have the lobby where we will answer your questions, we will read out your comments, we will have a recap from the previous week, then we move on to the question of the week. We round it off with next week's movie. Okay, so we'll start with the lobby. So Sam Bradford has emailed us.

I think this may have been a movie with choice from the previous listener choice. So. But he has put something quite interesting. So he. I think his choice was Equilibrium.

Darren: 00:30:14

Equilibrium.

Marc: 00:30:15

You love that movie. I've not seen it.

Darren: 00:30:17

I've seen it.

Marc: 00:30:17

So he put. He put a bit of a. The premise. He's put.

Christian Bale finds himself questioning his place and allegiance in a futuristic dystopia of a post World War 3 art, creativity and emotions are all now taboo and a new dictatorship. Question, did the Matrix eclipse this film? Should this have been a bigger film when it was released?

Darren: 00:30:34

Absolutely. Should have been a bigger film when it was released. It was. I think it's phenomenal. It's lower budget. It's always seems low budget anyway.

But I think it's really interesting and it does talk about the power of art and art is magic. I've probably talked about this before. Like anyone who creates art is a wizard, a witch, illusionist, you know, a magician.

Because art makes you feel. And the fact that you can take a musician, can take music and notes and their voice and make someone cry, that's witchcraft to me.

Or the fact that Jaws will spring to mind whenever I'm in the ocean and my feet suddenly can't touch the bottom and I think I'm gonna get attacked by a shark. Or even now if I'm in a shower with a shower curtain, particularly if it then touches my bum and sticks to me, I'm just like.

The fact that movies can do that, or song can alleviate grief, or poem can give you. Make you believe in love. Like it's insane to me how powerful art is.

And we see it time and time again where real governments and totalitarian governments and governments in movies come after the artists and shut down the art and burn books and burn paintings to stop.

Marc: 00:31:40

Us from feeling suppression.

Darren: 00:31:42

Yeah, absolutely. And I think Equilibrium was a warning about that. And I think it's a really solid film. And the action scenes are phenomenal. It's got a bit of a cult status now, by the sounds of it.

Marc: 00:31:53

Seems like we should cover it one week then. I tell you what, Sam. I will add it to the next listener choice. Yeah, it's already in there.

Darren: 00:31:59

See if it's a wheelchair.

Marc: 00:32:00

But it's not available on a streaming service as the list of films that we could choose but we can't because you have to pay for them is outrageous. Yes, I know what you're gonna say.

Darren: 00:32:09

Only Blockbuster is still open, right? Yeah.

Also we're in a state now where we're moving in. Well, America certainly is moving into a sedated country and we are the same. Like an awful lot of people on antidepressants or anti anxiety.

Everyone's.

It's a lot of people on meds to numb themselves or we're doing it to ourselves by being dopamine addicts and we're numbing ourselves by doom scrolling or playing games for extended hours or drinking or whatever it is.

Marc: 00:32:33

Thanks, Sam. Thanks for your question.

Darren: 00:32:34

Yeah, good question.

Marc: 00:32:35

Okay, so we're not going to recap on last week's question. We'll do that probably in the next one.

Darren: 00:32:39

Cool.

Marc: 00:32:40

About awkward date experiences.

Darren: 00:32:42

Oh yeah.

Marc: 00:32:43

There will be some, some cool answers come for that, I'm sure. Question of the week.

This time, if you woke up with no memory like Jason Bourne, what would be the first thing you would hope people would tell you about yourself?

Darren: 00:32:55

Oh, nice.

That was also. It was a kind of based on a true story. There was a guy, I think called Bourne who woke up and no. Suddenly just lost his memory. I forgot who he was.

And then he moved to a different country and set up a store in like Pennsylvania. And then three months later his memory came back and he totally forgot who he was in Pennsylvania and was like, why am I here?

And then went back to his old life.

Marc: 00:33:17

I've heard stories of people like banging their head or being in some car. Car accident. When they wake up, they can speak a different language or play the piano.

Darren: 00:33:24

Really?

Marc: 00:33:24

Yeah.

Darren: 00:33:25

Wow. I don't know what to say to the answer to your question though.

Marc: 00:33:28

What would you certainly want something bad.

Darren: 00:33:30

Like, oh, God, not you.

Marc: 00:33:32

You won the lottery two years ago. Excellent. But you gambled it all away.

Darren: 00:33:37

Did you know you have the biggest podcast of all time with Mark and Darren? Do I? Yeah. It's award winning, award winning. You just had surgery. You just had penis reduction surgery because you couldn't walk. And I'm seeing a theme here.

Marc: 00:33:53

I feel like we're gonna get some ridiculous answers, but I cannot wait. Listeners, don't let us down. Come on. Yeah.

So if you woke up with no memory like Jason Bourne, what's the first thing you would hope people would tell you about yourself? So next week's movie. We went to the cinema with some of our listeners.

Darren: 00:34:10

You know, he wants to die to say it. Did none of our fans turn up? Yes.

Marc: 00:34:15

And they were listening. They're listeners to the podcast. Yeah. So we went to see the Long Walk. We did Stephen King.

Darren: 00:34:22

We were local cinema.

Marc: 00:34:23

Yes. I'M not gonna tell you what we thought. You'll have to tune in next week for that.

Yeah, so we met some, we met some of our listeners, we watched the film and then we went for a drink and a chat afterwards. So those who were there got a sneak insight into our opinions on the movie and we had a good chat. So there you go. So that's next week's movie.

I look forward to that. So this episode is officially over. But before we say goodbye, you can get in touch with us, you can email us. Hello, Movies in a Nutshell dot com.

Our website is Movies in a Nutshell Dot com. The links to our socials are in the show notes. So if you want to get in touch with us, you can message us.

We will read some of your comments out on the show. We love to hear from you guys and the best thing you can do to help us is to share the show. Yes, send people a link, tell them about it.

If you can think of even you can think of just one person who would like this episode or this podcast, tell them about it, give us a rating and review whatever apps you listen. That all also helps. Anything you guys want to add, just please do that.

Darren: 00:35:13

Well, he says we like doing this.

Marc: 00:35:14

We want to do it for a long time, but for it to be sustainable, we need help.

Darren: 00:35:18

We love you long time.

Marc: 00:35:20

Yeah, what he said. Okay, so this episode is officially over. This is Mark saying goodbye, Darren saying goodbye for now.

Darren: 00:35:26

You drive, I'll pay. It's that simple.